The "gross comics" debate

Talk here about just about anything associated with British comics or story papers and the industry that does not fit in any other forum.
There are separate fora open to registered members for discussing specific comics, artists, websites etc.

Moderators: Al, AndyB

Lew Stringer
Posts: 7041
Joined: 01 Mar 2006, 00:59
Contact:

The "gross comics" debate

Post by Lew Stringer »

Whilst drawing the latest Super School (which features another panel of Stinkbomb farting) I've been giving more thought to the reactions on this forum to such "gross humour" as it's known.

I can understand the distaste of some if they hear second hand that "The Beano now features characters farting" but in its defence, the depictions of such are usually so exaggerated they cease to become offensive. Or at least that's the idea. Personally I'd find it loutish if someone deliberately broke wind in public in real life, but in a comic the act is exaggerated so much it becomes almost abstract.

Here's a recently published example of mine from Toxic, where I had a "fart monster" terrorizing the city. Is this really any worse than the stink bomb jokes depicted in old comics?

Image

Here's another example of gross humour from Toxic, - a baddie uses his smelly sock to force people to hand over their valuables.

Image

Neither of these two examples could actually happen. They use the concept of gross humour to leap into the realm of fantasy. It's the same when Stinkbomb in Super School or Bog in Team Toxic unleashes a giant cloudy fart to bowl over a villain or somesuch. It's exaggerated beyond the norm.

Let's think back to the comics of 40 - 50 years ago. By the same principle, in reality a nail through the sole of a foot isn't funny, but when Sunny Boy drops tacks that his Dad steps on and leaps to the ceiling it is funny. In reality when a child gets beaten black and blue it's anything but funny, but when Dare-A-Day-Davy gets battered so hard he has lumps on his lumps it's highly amusing. Both of those examples are from comics of the 1960s, and no doubt they unsettled some adults of the time just as much as "gross humour" unsettles adults here. But the kids found them hilarious. As adults we still find them funny because it's the comedy of our generation. I suspect the kids who laugh at fart gags in comics today will still find those strips funny when they're adults too, and will no doubt be complaining about the comics of the next generation.

Thoughts?

Lew
The blog of British comics: http://lewstringer.blogspot.com
My website: http://www.lewstringer.com
Blog about my own work: http://lewstringercomics.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Peter Gray
Posts: 4222
Joined: 28 Feb 2006, 00:07
Location: Surrey Guildford
Contact:

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by Peter Gray »

Not a fart fan..I think it makes me think of number twos..that is what is off putting..
also if it is used all the time it doesn't become that funny..

Its all Nigel's thought for bringing it in with Bea..

Swearing in comedies also is a turn off for me..
I feel that they are cheating in comedy..

smelly socks are fine...well i do like Tom's work..

Though as an adult I like Ken's work a lot.as a child I did find his work unsettling and even Tom Patersons.seeing characters beaten up wasn't funny for me at the time..
so even Calamity James as a kid I didn't like...which sounds crazy now!! I collect Tom's and Ken's work all the time now and a big fan..

Taste can change from a kid to an adult..
User avatar
Digifiend
Posts: 7315
Joined: 15 Aug 2007, 11:43
Location: Hull, UK

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by Digifiend »

Bea has a good excuse for the fart gags - she's a baby, and babies do stink out their nappies! Anyway, it's not just comics - Thunderpants springs to mind. A movie built around this gag.
grumpy old man
Posts: 177
Joined: 03 Mar 2006, 15:35

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by grumpy old man »

Hmm, I remember seeing the film Thunderpants and thinking it mildly funny. But no-one would believe me that there’s a film about a boy propelling a rocket into space by the power of his farts. Wonder what happened to that red headed kid Rupert Grint that was in it?

Needless to say you can watch the whole film on YouTube these days
Lew Stringer
Posts: 7041
Joined: 01 Mar 2006, 00:59
Contact:

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by Lew Stringer »

I didn't see Thunderpants but I noticed from stills that it featured a kid in a stripey shirt and short trousers with the ability of mega powered farts.

I don't know what Viz thought of it, but whether Thunderpants was a homage or blatant rip-off, Johnny Fartpants got there long before the movie existed. In fact, Johnny Fartpants is the original comic character with a commotion going on in his keks. The current fad is just following his lead really.

http://s4.hubimg.com/u/1747371_f260.jpg

Lew
User avatar
philcom55
Posts: 5170
Joined: 14 Jun 2006, 11:56

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by philcom55 »

Digifiend wrote:Bea has a good excuse for the fart gags - she's a baby, and babies do stink out their nappies!
You're right of course - generally speaking that's the most famous byproduct of babies. Yet the odd thing is that in all the years Bill Ritchie spent drawing Baby Crockett I can't think of a single instance in which he felt the need to fall back on lavatorial humour. Not that I object to fart jokes: there's no doubt that young children will always find them hilarious - it's just that they tend to get a bit repetitive after a while. Then again I did find Felix and his Amazing Underpants funny because it was so completely absurd - rather like the 'toilet' scene in Luis Buñuel's That Obscure Object of Desire.

- Phil Rushton
Lew Stringer
Posts: 7041
Joined: 01 Mar 2006, 00:59
Contact:

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by Lew Stringer »

philcom55 wrote:Not that I object to fart jokes: there's no doubt that young children will always find them hilarious - it's just that they tend to get a bit repetitive after a while. Then again I did find Felix and his Amazing Underpants funny because it was so completely absurd - rather like the 'toilet' scene in Luis Buñuel's That Obscure Object of Desire.

- Phil Rushton
I don't think we've ever really used fart gags for the Felix strips. His pants are just Amazingly versatile, being adaptable to use as a trampoline, slingshot, omnibus or MP's second home...

Image

Lew
The blog of British comics: http://lewstringer.blogspot.com
My website: http://www.lewstringer.com
Blog about my own work: http://lewstringercomics.blogspot.com/
User avatar
ISPYSHHHGUY
Posts: 4275
Joined: 14 Oct 2007, 13:05
Location: BLITZVILLE, USA

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by ISPYSHHHGUY »

Some people like f*rting jokes, others think they're childish......in comics they don't really appeal to me, however if a choirboy were to ph*art naturally in a packed church during a silent pause, I'd probably find this hilarous....but for someone to sit down and turn out a regular comic based mainly on this singular theme, to me just shows a lack of comic imagination [yes, I know that stories like INVISIBLE DICK turned out a variation on the same theme for over a decade, so it must take some imagination of sorts to rework the same stale theme]....there is doubtless an audience for this stuff, however.


The act of ph*rting is such widespread, I feel there is no need to shell out for a comic, when I can hear it 'free of charge' in the local boozer lavs.......or worse. I accept that cartoon flatulence is usually grossly exaggerated, but is there really anything a comic can depict in this arena that is 'funnier' than a totally unique ph*rt in real-life?
Raven
Posts: 2829
Joined: 16 Aug 2007, 22:58
Location: Highboro'

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by Raven »

For me - and I suspect many others - the dislike isn't a prudish response due to finding farting deeply offensive; it's due to the poverty of imagination that this kind of humour so often represents. It's depressingly reductive - everything reduced to bodily functions and excretions. There's always an air of desperation about this kind of comedy. A feeling of 'when in doubt, stick in a fart gag.'

John Cleese has talked about a similar thing with stage comedians and why they'll so often use very strong language on stage. It's a quick way of getting a laugh if you're unconfident about your material and your comedy skills - but it's an *easy* laugh. Anyone can do it. He calls it "thrashing around." Again, desperation.

I bought the Dandy Xtreme Christmas issue for the Jamie Smart Desperate Dan - I think his Dan is super - pull out, but still find the present world of the comic depressing: a world where every other nostril must have green mucus hanging out of it, every few panels must feature a steaming turd in the corner; Father Christmas can only be represented as a grotesquely ugly creature heaving on the toilet; his elf by flashing his bare arse at us. It's all so reductive, such uninspired crudity, and it's not hard to infer something of a contempt for children in there, too. That this *is all it takes* to entertain their undeveloped minds. Who needs good concepts or writing? Just stick in another fart gag.

Except I don't really think it does entertain them much. I don't think it is the comedy of this generation. The TV comedy that often seems most popular with kids - The Simpsons - is, at its best, very witty and well written indeed, with lots of care taken over the scripts. I don't think kids are utterly unsophisticated and crude in their tastes.

Farting *can* be funny in itself. As ISPYSHHHGUY says, in say, a solemn ceremony or undertaking, a situation of great dignity, someone breaking the silence with a big one when it's most inappropriate can be very funny. Comedy is a release mechanism and that's truly a taboo moment. But farting *in itself*, in any kind of situation or context, is not especially funny. And when it's repeated like Japanese water torture it becomes less and less so. (And who really thinks that snot has endless comedy potential?)

I don't think a smelly sock is gross-out humour of the kind we're talking about here, though - a smelly sock's a time honoured comedy prop. I think we're talking more about the lavatorial/bodily waste obsession.

Lew, you've started the debate: do you ever have doubts about this kind of material - or at least the apparent dependency on it in the likes of Dandy Xtreme -yourself?
Last edited by Raven on 22 Feb 2010, 20:36, edited 1 time in total.
jamie
Posts: 37
Joined: 08 Aug 2006, 11:10

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by jamie »

when i was drawing Count Von Poo for Toxic comic, it (naively) didn't occur to me that anyone might actually be offended by it. The idea of a spooky kid drawing faces on his faeces (har! shoulda used that) and imagining wonderful adventures with them, to me, was innocent mucky fun. Toxic suggested a few ground rules, ie we never see The Count actually touching the poo etc, which i was happy to go with, but otherwise the idea was never censored.

Count Von Poo only ran for umm maybe 10 issues i think? i imagine the E Coli outbreak that happened around that time had something to do with it ending. But it should be stated that during its run, I was informed they received not one single complaint, from adult or child. And I'm proud of that.

Gross humour has always been, and will always be. If done lazily then it's a cop-out, but if done with genuine affection then its the most wonderfully guilty pleasure to laugh at.
felneymike
Fence Sitter
Posts: 1901
Joined: 30 Sep 2007, 15:03
Location: Cambridgeshire
Contact:

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by felneymike »

My and my brother (and most of our friends, especially our beans-loving friend Tom) loved fart gags when we were Beano/Dandy age, but they didn't appear in the comic back then... we probably would have loved it if they did.
However "non-stop" guff gags do get a bit boring... even in Viz, i find! Maybe i just got tired of them after a few years of nothing but.
(Incedentally if any of you comic writers out there are hard up, Tom once sat on the wooden floor of our house and did one that rattled the floorboards so much we thought it was the neighbour drilling to put up some shelves. Also he tried to "fart propel" his bike across the allotments in the village, we then rode around two main roads and back past the end of the allotments we had started from and could still smell it!)
Lew Stringer
Posts: 7041
Joined: 01 Mar 2006, 00:59
Contact:

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by Lew Stringer »

Raven wrote: Lew, you've started the debate: do you ever have doubts about this kind of material - or at least the apparent dependency on it in the likes of Dandy Xtreme -yourself?
Not really. Contrary to your comment that it shows a lack of imagination or lack of confidence about writing comedy I think if anything it challenges us to use such material in more imaginative ways. The gags are rarely (if ever) just about someone farting so the strips are not dependent on it. There's a story as well, and I (and most others) exaggerate the "fart gag" into surreal areas, - such as the "fart monster" shown earlier.

I find the "humour" of breaking wind in public in real life situations completely childish, unpleasant, and unfunny. If a character in realistically drawn adventure strip broke wind it wouldn't be funny.

However... in humour comics it's shown as a billowing cloud with the force of a gale and people gagging with distorted expressions. It's the visual exaggeration that's funny in the comic strip. And no smell! It's harmless and inoffensive.

Image

Outside of Johnny Fartpants (which is aimed at adults anyway) today's strips are no more dependent on the "fart gag" than Fifties strips were dependent on the "six of the best" whackings. It's just a part of the story, not the sum of it. And not even part of every story.
ISPYSHHHGUY wrote:...for someone to sit down and turn out a regular comic based mainly on this singular theme, to me just shows a lack of comic imagination
No such comics exist that are based on that singular theme. The panels I'm showing here are just snippets of longer stories for the purpose of illustrating what I'm describing. You really ought to pick up a Dandy Xtreme, Toxic, or The Beano sometime Rab. You might even like 'em. :wink:
As cartoonists and/or collectors surely it's the artwork and story technique that's of interest anyway, not the level of humour? As a 50 year old bloke I don't expect a modern children's comic to cater for my tastes. Why should it?

Image

I do find it ironic that some people who bemoan "political correctness" in comics are the same ones complaining about this aspect of non-pc behaviour. It's anti-political correctness gone mad! :lol:

Lew
Last edited by Lew Stringer on 22 Feb 2010, 23:08, edited 1 time in total.
The blog of British comics: http://lewstringer.blogspot.com
My website: http://www.lewstringer.com
Blog about my own work: http://lewstringercomics.blogspot.com/
User avatar
Digifiend
Posts: 7315
Joined: 15 Aug 2007, 11:43
Location: Hull, UK

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by Digifiend »

philcom55 wrote:
Digifiend wrote:Bea has a good excuse for the fart gags - she's a baby, and babies do stink out their nappies!
You're right of course - generally speaking that's the most famous byproduct of babies. Yet the odd thing is that in all the years Bill Ritchie spent drawing Baby Crockett I can't think of a single instance in which he felt the need to fall back on lavatorial humour.

- Phil Rushton
Despite his name, I think Baby Crockett is supposed to be a similar age to Ivy the Terrible or Little Mo (3 or 4), rather than literally a baby like Bea. I'm sure he's been seen going to the bathroom sometimes, and not just for a bath.
Phoenix
Guru
Posts: 5360
Joined: 27 Mar 2008, 21:15

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by Phoenix »

Lew Stringer wrote:I suspect the kids who laugh at fart gags in comics today will still find those strips funny when they're adults too, and will no doubt be complaining about the comics of the next generation. Thoughts?
The mind boggles when merely trying to imagine just what elements of future 'humour' there might be that would lead today's fart-and-turd-appreciating children to complain. Just where on earth will it be going next?
User avatar
chrissmillie
Posts: 536
Joined: 06 Mar 2006, 14:22
Location: Cairo, Egypt
Contact:

Re: The "gross comics" debate

Post by chrissmillie »

I think it can be funny in Viz (which I really enjoy). Don't read the likes of Dandy, Toxic! etc but if I did as a kid, I'm pretty sure I'd find it funny. Don't think there's anything too wrong with cheap laughs in children's comics. Their sense of humour is just developing, so these are the first times they're hearing these jokes.

I'm not offended at all by it. Kids love it. No problem there that I can see.
STARSCAPE
http://www.StarscapeComic.co.uk
Classic British reprints and all-new comics
Post Reply