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DFC No.'s 1,2,3 and 4 
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Joined: Wed Mar 01, 2006 12:59 am
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Agent G wrote:
Surely there should be an editor who would take resposibility for this kind of gaff?
The choice of language was an error. Consider the surrounding materials and who they are supposed to appeal to.
If anyone here had read that in The Beano or Dandy there should and would have been outrage.

Does the lack of DFC posts indicate the lack of interest?


Naturally the editor saw it but perhaps he thought today's kids and parents could deal with it? Unfortunately some parents I know use far worse language in front of their kids, very casually.

As for lack of posts on The DFC, I assume it's the same reason as lack of posts on most modern comics: this is mainly a nostalgia forum.

Lew

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Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:06 pm
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Wa? :o

What did it actually say, in which context?

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Wed Jun 18, 2008 6:37 pm
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DC Skelton

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Conor B wrote:
Wa? :o

What did it actually say, in which context?


Conor B Your far to young to be told what it said :shock:

I have to admit I was quite surprised reading it in issue 3, after 2 weeks of no swearing.
48 posts is quite good for this forum and there will be more.
My issues have all appeard on friday.


Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:53 pm
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Here's the frame in question. I hope it doesn't upset anyone, Al. :xfingers:


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Wed Jun 18, 2008 8:56 pm
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PG-certificate films ostensibly aimed at children include such mild swearing, so why shouldn't comics follow suit?

Maybe the comic should come with an age-rating on the front... wonder what Pullman would make of that?! :lol:


Wed Jun 18, 2008 9:07 pm
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PG films are rated, as you say, so parents can make their own minds up if their kids are ready for the content. The DFC isn't, and is in fact designed to look like a comic for youngsters. A kids' comic is not the place for swearing, especially when it's dressed up as such a positive, wholesome, responsible read - and clearly aimed at a wide age-range - as one previous poster said; his youngest son likes to colour in and draw faces, while the older one presumably enjoys the slightkly more sophisticated stories. While you don't have to dumb down, you certainly have to be responsible.

Someone else said if the dandy or beano had printed it, there would be a moral outrage, and they were right.

ETA I wouldn't regard b*****d as mild swearing.


Last edited by MikeC on Thu Jun 19, 2008 4:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Jun 19, 2008 12:27 pm
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Hmmm... I'm interested in the reaction to the 'swearing issue'. I think 'bloody' is just about okay. I wouldn't use 'b******'. What do you think of the word 'damn'? I ask because I'm using it (subject to censorship) in my DFC strip. I can't think of another word to use in its place, it does exactly the job I need it to.

Edit: ha - seems the forum agrees with me - it's accepted 'bloody' but won't let me type b******! Damn seems okay though :D

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Thu Jun 19, 2008 3:40 pm
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In my experience, kids know all the bad words as soon as they start school, if not earlier - the question is whether or not we legitimise its use by choosing to employ profanity within their entertainment media. When I was a kid, I had my 'playground language' and my 'home language', and I was in big trouble if I ever got them mixed up. These days, I commonly hear adults actually swearing at their kids, and I cringe.

I'm not against swearing, nor am I a prude. Profanity in the right circumstances can be a highly effective linguistic tool, and it can be used very creatively. I do believe, however, that there's plenty of time to learn how to do that without making it an acceptable factor in our children's upbringing. Indeed, to do so would be to blunt any edge it has. To use that great parental maxim, it's not clever, and it's not funny.

If children's comic creators can't come up with an inventive (and even humorous) replacement for swearing, then perhaps they should be doing something else for a living.

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Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:06 pm
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Steve Bright wrote:
If children's comic creators can't come up with an inventive (and even humorous) replacement for swearing, then perhaps they should be doing something else for a living.

Steve - a thoughtful answer, and I agree with you.

Concerning my use of "damn", I feel unsure as to how 'bad' the word is. I mean it's probably used in churches throughout the land every Sunday. It's got that verbal 'stop' that I need, and is slightly humorous in the way I want to use it. Furthermore, the scene's been in my head for ages, and I feel reluctant to let it go (which I know is weak of me!). But then, as you (and others) rightly say - there is a responsibility here.

I haven't discussed it with the editor yet, but will do of course...

Edit: from Wikipedia, just out of interest:

Quote:
"Damn" is a mildly profane word used in North America while debatably cursing or swearing since some think it's a swear and some don't. The use of "damn" in Rhett Butler's parting line to Scarlett O'Hara in the film Gone with the Wind in 1939 captivated moviegoers with "Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn."

Okay for children? Not?

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Thu Jun 19, 2008 5:30 pm
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@Garen

I was told that "Damn" was short for "Damn you to hell", so it can be pretty strong if you believe in that sort of thing. That's where "Blow" (you to hell) and "Blast" (you to hell) come from too, apparently.

Can't you use "fiddlesticks" instead. Or is that just plain rude? haha.


Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:07 pm
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Heh - fiddlesticks! :D Can't use it as I need two people on the opposite ends of a phone line to say it after putting the phone down, one a 12 year old boy, one an ancient old codger - so would be a coincidence if they both said fiddlesticks! Or rats! Or hell's bells!

Damn isn't short for anything, except perhaps 'damnation'. It's a word in its own right, though 'damn you to hell' is one use of the word. As too is 'Frankly my dear, I don't give a damn'. 'Frankly my dear I don't give a damn you to hell' doesn't make sense!

I do have a kid saying "that's a big pile of complete bonkers!". Wonder how that will come across?

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Thu Jun 19, 2008 7:22 pm
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Damn is short for Damn you!, and you certainly won't find it being used in churches up and down the land. It's a profanation of biblical language. Remember in more religious times, to utter the phrase would carry much more weight than it does now, when ignorance of religion is widespread (more than non-belief, which is kind of sad). Likewise, b*****d has a perfectly acceptable definition, and a profane usage associated with it.

For me, I agree with what Mr Bright said. Kids might grow up with no standards, and no sense of how to behave in different companies, but I won't let myself be to blame for it. I too remember having two idioms as a child, and I think I'm smarter for it.

Plus, it's a comic. When Ezra Pound's undiscovered scripts come to light, maybe then we'll see a word used for which there's *really* no alternative.


Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:37 am
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Well, there's always "Darn!", "Curses", or "Drat!" which were obviously substitutes for "Damn!", although the first two are too old fashioned now and the latter was never convincing.

I suppose Homer Simpson's "D'oh!" is a modern replacement for it, but a bit too closely associated with that character now. (Even though it used to be the catchphrase of Crackerjack's Peter Glaze.) :lol:

"Damn" would probably only upset the staunchly religious these days, but comics can't afford to have some busybody parent complain. Can't the character just say "Aarghh" or something? :)

Lew

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Fri Jun 20, 2008 8:58 am
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Thanks for your reply, Mike, appreciate your thoughts.

At the risk of sliding helplessly into off-topicdom, I must say that 'damn' is not short for 'damn you'. Damn means to condemn, it exists quite happily on its own. If you have "lies and more damn lies" you are not saying "lies and more damn you lies", you are saying the lies are damned, or condemned.

Its religious use is not profane, though it has been appropriated as such since. Its past tense is 'damned' (eg. condemned to hell, or to peeling potatoes):

"And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith"

Then there is the act of 'damnation' itself.

"and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation"

Things or people can be 'damnable'. 'Damn you' is just a phrase that uses the adjective - 'damn'. I concede that you are probably correct that the word 'damn' is not uttered by vicars all over, but only because its augmentative versions are more useable in a religious context: damnation, damned etc. - perfectly acceptable uses in front of the congregation, I'm sure (hmmm - edited to add this link).

Lew - thanks also for your useful answer. My problem lies in two characters saying the same thing, so it has to be a fairly common word. There may indeed be a problem (but as you say, probably only with the more prudish), though the more I look into it, the less bad a word it proves to be. However - it is perception that matters.

'City of the Damned' ran in 2000AD in the early 80s - when kids still read it (admittedly older than the younger end of the DFC readership). I am not worried about the 11 and 12 year olds - which is who my strip is aimed at, but their younger brothers and sisters - who will also read it - I admit that does worry me a little. I am definitely giving it a lot of thought, and am leaning towards changing it rather than upsetting a minority.

While I think the word 'damn' is actually fine for 10, 11 and 12 year olds, I admit, I do not like the idea of a 7-year old going around using it as a new word they've learned from my strip.

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Last edited by Garen on Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.



Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:34 am
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Reading old steel claw stories and other it makes me laugh & I love it when they use "Good Grief" "My Stars" "Oh my gosh" "My word" "Swipe Me"


Last edited by steelclaw on Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:27 am
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