Retro TV

[DavidKW]

Has been a bit of shark jumping on retro TV viewing recently:

Have been recording and watching repeats of sitcom Hi De Hi! - watched before tuning to The Avengers. I admit it wasn't as good as I remmebered it, but funny in places. I did stop watching immediately after Simon Cadell/Jeffrey Fairbrother left as show went downhill to unfunny melodrama afterwards and too many other good key support charcters left to be inadquately replaced.

The stopping of this coincided with True Ent runinng out of Diana Rigg Avengers episodes.

One thing I'll say about the Thorson series were there were a lot of good episode ideas plots which ended up being executed and done very poorly (I'm a bit sad, but have written re-makes of these ideas around my own similar Avengers style tv creations).

The website The Avengers Forever pinpoints a lot more about what went wrong with that series in the end.

Have been watching Doctor Who repeats on Horror channel andf are not showing the John Nathan Turner 80s productions when the show really started to go wrong. Now onto ones with "wet vet in space" Peter Davison.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

I quite like the Thorson Avengers, Geoff: although perhaps they made too many of them---it was a very large series of 33 episodes, so it is no wonder the quality control went West a bit here and there---the final episode was the aptly-named Bizarre of course.


blu-ray upgrades of the Rigg episodes have garnered good responses over on Amazon, so if they ever come down in price I will bite...tight git that I am!


In all seriousness, the early 2000s Avengers dvds I have are still perfectly acceptable.

[paw broon]

Yes, I agree, ISPYSHHHGUY. I'm currently working my way through the Thorson box set and find them enjoyable. As I tend to be worryingly fond of the Diana Rigg episodes and have a place in my affections for Mrs. Gale, it's surprising that I'm enjoying the Thorson episodes quite as much as I am

[stevezodiac]

I'm lucky to have a Honey West dvd box set starring Anne Francis of Forbidden Planet fame as a sixties secret agent in the Avengers mould. I also have Strange Report which was a sixties X-Files type show featuring an older agent with two younger sidekicks one male and one female. The female agent was played by Anneke Wills who was a Doctor Who companion and she also appeared in the Avengers. Honey West episodes are on youtube.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

Paw; the Thorson 'proper' opener GAME is an absolute beauty, and the most bizarre Avengers episode ever could well be Look Stop Me--------about the killer clowns: a Masterclass of late 60s weirdness, by any standards.


The music that ends the episodes 'the Shake' as Steed and Tara share a visual gag is a memorable bonus, as is the Mother character turning up in outrageous places: the top deck of a bus, a swimming pool, to cite two examples.


Brilliant stuff, much better than the New Avengers in my view.

[alanultron5]

"My Wildest dream" was screened early in the run- yet was the penultimate episode in original ATV screening in the 60s!

[alanultron5]

Sadly- the `Thorson` ones ended at "Killer" with 14 left! Ah well!

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

stick to boxed sets, Alan---no annoying advert breaks, bits edited out or continuity problems or complicated recording systems to deal with, old son.

[alanultron5]

I just got the box set of the Thorson series! Yet to watch it. There was an almighty row at the first shootings of that series and John Bryce who was `dumped` as Producer and Clemens & Fennel returned! (They had left after the Rigg series) They did not want Thorson at all but because the series had been pre-sold to the US as featuring her she had to stay despite their disliking her. Linda though John Bryce had been treated badly and was prepared to leave in support of him! Only Patrick Macnee's unstinting support for her (Which he made very clear to Clemens and Fennell) persuaded her otherwise!

sadly- the Avengers had doomed itself to a short life by becoming so reliant on USA sales! Once the US audiences tired of it- it had to end- unless it reverted to the far less expensive style (On Video as opposed to film shot) of the pre Diana Rigg series filmed virtually all in studio sets and of less `sci-fi` based stories to cut down on cost. EG "Mission Highly Improbable" was a very expensive episode due to those incredible sets!

The shows own sucess in its `way-out` but superb stories became a rod for its own back as more-and-more it had need of very high funding and only via USA sales could it survive! The only show in the 1960s that cost more per episode to film than the Avengers (Who seemingly costed at close to £40.000 per episode 1968-69) was "The Prisoner" which ranged between £50.000 to £75.000 episode cost!

[DavidKW]

Just as well they finished on Killer - this was one of that series best as Jennifer Croxton did an excellent job as Thorson's stand in. More in Gale/Peel style and looked like a young Honor Balckman. Just what the show was missing!

Perhaps Trus Ent didn't have the rights for rest of Tara series - or viewing figures fell.

I've got that box set too - an interesting extra is film of other auditionees with one of the people who worked on the show making good commentary.

[DavidKW]

I think the other thing that killed The Avengers was the boardroom at ABC television (UK) who killed the golden goose.

According to Patrick MacNee, in his book The Avengers and ME (a stimulating read), ABC directors were already interfering in the shows making during Diana Rigg's final episodes.

The boardroom felt the show had good too surreal and silly and wanted it to last many years and felt it wouldn't under the surreal direction Brian Clemens moved it. So they brought in John Bryce from the earlier Blackman era to bring back some gritty reality. Clemens - who got made producer because of his film making experience - refused to be demoted to just writer like before so left.

Trouble was the Avengers was now made on film not in live Tv studio. Bryce had no experience of this and wouldn't listen to advice and no idea of budgets.

Its also alleged Linda Thorson was having an affair with Bryce. The blonde pink fluffy Tara King as she was first promoted was an image and character dictated to by ABC executives.

3 poor episodes were made before Clemens was begged back. He came back on condition he had absolute control; 8 more episodes with Tara in a brunette wig were made, then writer Philip Levene left as he didn't agree with Clemens wanting to increase the fantasy levels in show. (celmens had got and arranged finance from ABC TV USA to make rest of series

The balance of Levene and Clemens as writers was one of the Rigg era strengths.

Series also suffered los of Ray Austin as head stunt director - successor Joe Dunne style was more violent. (Austin had defected to ITC with incentive to get more chances to direct TV shows).

A right old mess there then!

[stevezodiac]

A similar thing happened on the Man From U.N.C.L.E. where the third series was almost a comedy show and very demeaning to Robert Vaughn and David McCallum. Thankfully the fourth series went back to straight secret agent drama with a touch of humour. This is obviously a successful formula as it works so well in NCIS - the most watched drama in the world - also starring David McCallum.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

yes those pen microphones on Uncle were unforgettable!

[DavidKW]

Yeah I remember reading that on Man From UNCLE - never got into the TV series though.

Do like NCIS and catch it when I can for its balance of humour and serious - I hear a lot of people watch it for David McCallum's Ducky Mallard, plus many love Abi Scutio - those 2 often provide the lighter moments.

The other coffin nails for the Avengers was Brian Clemens' decision to bring in the Mother character; Patrick MacNee often spoke against has inclusion which he said "made Steed ordinary" and that the appeal of the show was a crime and "two people just being there".

I think Mother might have worked had he been in another different TV series. His presence did slow down the flow a bit. Too many changes there.

The other nails were The Avengers got screened against Rowan and Martin's Laugh In whcih was the show to watch in USA at time (sock it to me!).

This caused ABC USA to withsraw the funding due to its failiure Its alleged Clemens then approached Thames TV, which ABC UK had become due to a merger with Rediffusion. But Thames said no - too expensive.

It was by then that Thames were also having big ratings hits with cheaper grittier fayre - notablly new series Special Branch, Public Eye was at its popularity peak (whcih was created by former Avengers writer Rogar Marshall) and Callan (created by James Mitchell - an early Avengers writer).

So there was clearly a shift in taste to real more gritty stuff by 1969. And Thames would set up Euston Films in early 1970, for location filming. Winds of change.

[alanultron5]

Once it became overly reliant on US sales- it was doomed as the US audience could change its affections like the wind, and to have your existance depend on that- always very risky I think. Yes! its great that the later Avengers seasons are so `way-out` but that's what limited their production life!