WAS ALF TUPPER A COCKNEY?

[Lew Stringer]

I adored the Likely Lads and have every episode in dvd box set. But they did use NE phrases like starting a sentence with Eeee! or saying "Though Butt". Another aspect of the Tough of the Track is, of course, the railway arch where he worked. We have hundreds of these arches across London and my nan worked in one for a while. So my dad was a welder, his mum worked in a railway arch, we all have eaten fish and chips at some time in our lives and have used the phrase Bloomin' Ada. So its settled, Alf was a cockney. Thank gawd for that. (Well he always will be to me).

Funny you should say that. It was the railway arch that reminded me of the North! (Plus we have one in my town too.)

Lew

[stevezodiac]

Yes i thought that would be the case due to railways not being exclusive to the capital. I will hold a seance and ask mr d c thomson himself here goes: "Excuse me, your head honchoship, but was alf tupper a cockney?"

dc thomson: "It was a cold and gloomy nicht ye ken and there was a neep and tattie smell in the air all aroond masel. Anyhoo it came to pass that mah lum was reeking with a muckle great piece a coal that took the steam richt oot o mah drookit trews and takkity boots......."

Oh i forgot he was a hundred and ten when he passed away and as scatterbrained as they come. No disrespect meant ye ken.

[Kashgar]

The phrase 'though but' to end a sentence is by no means a common Geordieism even if Terry Collier used it frequently in 'The Likely Lads'.

[philcom55]

As a matter of fact I've always wondered if there was ever any DCT editorial line on the percentage of strips set in Scotland that were allowable at any one time, bearing in mind that the bulk of the readership for their comics lived in England. As it was there seemed to be an awful lot (probably because many had originally appeared in their Scottish newspapers), and I was always a bit uneasy about series like Wild Young Dirky where we were regularly cast as villains. As a matter of interest, was it ever actually established that Black Bob was set in Scotland as I always assumed?

- Phil Rushton

[colcool007]

As a matter of fact I've always wondered if there was ever any DCT editorial line on the percentage of strips set in Scotland that were allowable at any one time, bearing in mind that the bulk of the readership for their comics lived in England. As it was there seemed to be an awful lot (probably because many had originally appeared in their Scottish newspapers), and I was always a bit uneasy about series like Wild Young Dirky where we were regularly cast as villains. As a matter of interest, was it ever actually established that Black Bob was set in Scotland as I always assumed?

- Phil Rushton

As to Black Bob, reading them always made me think that it was set in the Borders area, around Jedburgh or Hawick way.

As to percentage of strips featuring heroes, it was a rare one that featured a Scots hero as opposed to an English one. Just flicked through two Victor Annuals and a Hotspur Annual and you have the count as follows:

English Heroes 31
US Heroes 8
Scots Heroes 1
and the Scots one is only due to it being called Cameron's Crackerjacks with the man in charge being Scottish. And not one of these Annuals is newer than 1972!

But, back to the Alf Tupper debate, there were old railway arches of the ilk in downtown Dundee. So when I first saw the arches, I thought that was where the orignal author had taken his inspiration from and I have always associated railway arches with the Midlands and that sort of area for some reason. Plus, it is a tad difficult to run from Bow Bells to anywhere green and pleasant in only five miles, which is what Alf used to do regularly.

[Lew Stringer]

As a matter of interest, was it ever actually established that Black Bob was set in Scotland as I always assumed?

- Phil Rushton

Without checking, I seem to recall it was set in Selkirk, so definitely Scotland! Plus the name Andrew Glenn sounded like a Scot to me.

I always felt Korky the Cat was set in Scotland too, as he seemed to be going to "Rovers vs Rangers" matches a lot, which sounded Scottish.

As mentioned earlier in this thread the strips were probably intended to have unspecific locations so as to have wider appeal, but I imagine a Scottish writer might subconsciously use Scottish locales just as an English writer might automatically think of English settings.

Lew

[Brendan McGuire]

I have a hazy memory of the Bash Street Kids studying a map in one frame. No place-names were mentioned, but it was quite decidedly Scotland.

[philcom55]

I imagine a Scottish writer might subconsciously use Scottish locales just as an English writer might automatically think of English settings.

On the whole I tend to agree but in at least one case the writers were allowed to be a bit more definite! From the epic (and best ever imho) Baxendale BSK story in the classic 1963 Beano Annual: documentary evidence of the Kids' Sassenach origins, along with proof that they were anything but welcome North of the Border -

[img:570:793]http://uk.geocities.com/philcom55/bashst.jpg[/img]

(...I particularly liked the scene where a deeply traumatised Loch Ness Monster was shown running in terror from the "horrible sicht" of Plug! )

- Phil Rushton

[Kashgar]

Black Bob was indeed a resident of the Scottish Borders. He got about a bit though and had adventures set as far afield as South America.

[shawfield]

Hi. Sorry to pick this one up so late.

Colcool has it right I think, in that its never stated where Alf lives. Its up to the reader to decide. So, Steve Zodiac can have his way if he wants !

As a Londoner myself, I always got the impression that Alf came from the Black country. Tipon or Wolverhampton maybe.

But if we are basing our ideas of where he came from, by looking at Pete Sutherlands drawings, then maybe you should consider Leicester.

Pete was based near there & I remember walking from the station to Filbert Street Football ground in the 60's & 70's, past rows of two up two down houses, & past vast warehouses & Mills next to the dirty Canal ( or was it a River ? ). There are certainly ( or used to be ) Railway arches in Leicester, so I'd gues he took his influence from his local surroundings.

See below for the view of the Victor editor, Buff Halley.
http://www.toughofthetrack.net/buff_halley.htm

Sutherlands drawings.
http://www.toughofthetrack.net/sutherland.htm

[stevezodiac]

Very interesting Sutherland pieces but please remember us comic fans hate it when anyone spells it "DC Thompson", it's DC Thomson. You're adding the P (as opposed to taking it). And whenever I read Tupper he'll be a cockney.

[Cap Haggis]

I always read Alf Tupper as from the Midlands as well - no idea why though - Always felt most of the humour DCT UK type strips ( Ginger, Korky, Dennis the Menace, Little Mo etc) were set in Scoltand (with the exception of Lord Snooty, BSKs and Col Blink who were very much English) probably because most were drawn by artists that were eoither Scottish or based in Scotland at the time and seemed to take reference of the Scottish council type houses and shops of the time (a la the Broons adn Oor Wullie)- I always felt most of the adventure type strips/charaters were firmly from South of the border as in these if you were a Scot )or Irish or Welsh) it was pointed out quite clearly (almost to the stange of being sterotypes) - Nowadays they are all very muich based in London it seems as Beanotown is always shown onth emap (in the strips)as beingin that area which is fair afterall it may be printed , edited in Scotland but most readers are clearly in England

[shawfield]

Good point well made SteveZ.

I will make a point of doing a 'find & replace' on DC Thompson to make sure it gets changed.

The beauty of comics is surely, that as you say, you can decide for yourself what accents the characters have. Cockney works for you & midlands works for me. I wouldnt have it any other way & nor would Buff Halley.

Cheers

[joe cassidy]

Just came across this topic. I lived in Reading, Berks, as a kid and I never travelled north of the river Thames (except to Caversham) until I was 12 years old.

I knew that Scotland/the North of England existed but did not have any notion as to whether these places looked different from the South of England, or how people there spoke. I just assumed that Alf came from a place similar to where I lived, and spoke like me.

[starscape]

I always heard him in a Yorkshire accent for no particular reason. Definitely cannot hear him as a Londoner.