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ISPYSHHHGUY wrote:
Regarding British creations like Watchmen and Kick-ass: these are basically pastiches or indeed 'send-ups' to some extent of the Superhero genre, familiar to buffs mostly, but nowhere near the 'household name' status enjoyed by the characters of Superman, Batman and others, that are immediately recognizable to even the most uninterested bystander..... Even my grandmother would have recognized an image of Batman, but it's doubtful if the character of Kick-ass would have stood out from the legions of Superhero 'also-rans' that have been created since the 'first-ran' greats.
I haven't time to get into a long debate but I wasn't talking about whether or not older generations would know Watchmen or Kick Ass. I was just pointing out that those were two that had made a huge impact and were created by non-Americans. It's unfair to compare them to Batman, which has had decades to establish itself.
Your point that Brits can't do superheroes as well as Americans may have been true 40 years ago, in the age of lame IPC characters such as Tri-Man and Gadgetman, (who? Exactly.) but times have changed.
...Written, incidentally, by some American guy called Jerry Siegel - who created plenty of lame superheroes in his time, as well as one rather well-known Kryptonian! (Funnyman anybody?)
...Written, incidentally, by some American guy called Jerry Siegel - who created plenty of lame superheroes in his time, as well as one rather well-known Kryptonian! (Funnyman anybody?)
- Phil R.
Heh. Fair enough.
Ok then; replace that with Leopardboy or King Cobra.
I don't actually mind King Cobra... though I wasn't aware Cobras were electrified or able to fly!
Anyway, yes, the news. British comic creators are hardly spoilt for choice when it comes to regular these days are they? This will send a lot of them back to stacking the shelves, just what they need with things as they are!
Batman and Superman were much bigger in their own time [when they were 'new'] than Kick-Ass or Watchmen, were during their initial release , Lew: Superman especially was widely seen in animated cartoon format in a series of fully-animated shorts by the Fleischers, and there was radio adaptations of both characters, and I'm fairly sure there were early serial adaptations of both characters on at the cinema matinees, in an era when cinema attendances were massive compared to today.
Superman and Batman also had the advantage of being the first 'proper' superheroes of their type, and subsequently captured the public imagination very quickly as a result------Watchmen and Kick-ass are more knowing and postmodern, but their public profile was diluted by today's media, with is awash with advanced visuals, making it more difficult for any new pretenders to Supe's /Bruce Wayne's crown to get widespread recognition, at least at the level achieved by Superman/Batman in the early days.
ISPYSHHHGUY wrote:Batman and Superman were much bigger in their own time [when they were 'new'] than Kick-Ass or Watchmen, were during their initial release , Lew: Superman especially was widely seen in animated cartoon format in a series of fully-animated shorts by the Fleischers, and there was radio adaptations of both characters, and I'm fairly sure there were early serial adaptations of both characters on at the cinema matinees, in an era when cinema attendances were massive compared to today.
Superman and Batman also had the advantage of being the first 'proper' superheroes of their type, and subsequently captured the public imagination very quickly as a result------Watchmen and Kick-ass are more knowing and postmodern, but their public profile was diluted by today's media, with is awash with advanced visuals, making it more difficult for any new pretenders to Supe's /Bruce Wayne's crown to get widespread recognition, at least at the level achieved by Superman/Batman in the early days.
Yes I'm sure we're all aware of that Rab, but it's beside the point. We weren't talking about the 1940s, but at least you didn't mention Hitler this time so thanks for that.
The fact remains that these days (and for the past 25 years or so) British creators have proven that they can do superhero comics equally well if not better than the "Yanks". That's all I was saying.
I could have added imagery to show Superman bopping Hitler in the nose, but you've probably seen that one many times, Lew!
I read on the subject of WW2 [which I actually rate as much more important than mere comics entertainment] just as much as comics, so I apologize to anyone bored with my apparant 'Hitler fixation'.
The Disney decision is bad on both economic and creative crounds. It seems to me like a bad business move. Deliberately cutting out a fair proportion of creators only weakens the titles and the company. I understand that it's not only British writers and artists who work for Marvel and I therefore assume that the same sort of discussion as this is going on in a number of other countries.
As for who does the best superheroes, I'm not sure if I want to get into all that but it appears obvious that USA has the most. But quantity is not always a guarantee of quality. Superman and Batman were novel in their time but weren't of course original. Mandrake and The Phantom preceded them by a few years as newspaper strips. And in the pulps, there were superheroes and masked mystery men long before Action#1. Also in British "pulps".
Now, for once, I felt I had to disagree with Lew as I really enjoy many British superheroes (or at least those non American ones in British comics). What's not to like about Billy the Cat or Leopard of Lime Street or Spring Heeled Jack? And I do like Leopardboy, Gadgetman and Gimmick Kid (don't forget the sidekick) if only because they are a bit duff. And those other Supergirls or Starr of Wonderland. If we are talking about seriously good superheroes then take a look at Ace Hart.
Sadly Ace Hart was a bit before my time but I've always had fond memories of Thunderbolt Jaxon; and while he may have started out as a a lame copy of Captain Marvel nobody can really argue with the success of Mick Anglo's Marvelman.
paw broon wrote:
Now, for once, I felt I had to disagree with Lew as I really enjoy many British superheroes (or at least those non American ones in British comics). What's not to like about Billy the Cat or Leopard of Lime Street or Spring Heeled Jack?
I didn't mention Billy the Cat. I like those strips.
Leopardboy never captured my interest, although when it debuted I was older than the age group it was aimed at so that's a factor as well I suppose.
Johnny Future was the only UK superhero strip that visually came close to the dynamism and power of American superheroes in the 1960s IMHO. The rest seemed a bit wet. Perhaps I was spoiled by Stan and Jack's creations. *
(* Stan Lee and Jack Kirby, not Stan and Jack from On The Buses.)
