If we had a list of the 100 greatest serials in girls comics

[Tammyfan]

It's getting hard to remember what's already been suggested, but I don't think we've had these:

Jill Crusoe
Uncle Lionel
Mary Jo
Alona
Westward the Wagons
Moira, Slave girl of Rome
Alice in Spaceland
The Land of Nowhere
Lady Penelope
Black Velvet
Daughter of Lorna Doone
The Sentinels

And what about some of the outstanding literary adaptations like 'Black Beauty', 'The Secret Garden', 'The Woman in White', 'Wuthering Heights' - or historical biographies such as 'Joan of Arc'?

Part of the problem is that, while certain strips have an unarguable claim to greatness, some of the others that are being suggested won't even have been seen by most of us. Over time perhaps it'd be a good idea for people to explain why they think their nominations belong in the top 100 - backing this up with examples wherever possible?

Or maybe we should begin by trying to establish the top 10 all-time, indisputable greats? For example, I don't think anybody could argue against the importance of the Four Marys and the Happy Days - that just leaves eight to go!

- Phil Rushton

Where did those serials appear, please?

Sorry, no adaptations. When I do a list on the 'best' for just one girls' comics, this is my criteria. Mind you, I must admit that it is subject to revision and some people might have differing views:

Stories automatically included:
Stories that had sequels
Stories that were repeated
Stories that ran for at least a year
Stories that attract comment (letters, Internet, blogs, articles)
Stories that stick with people and well-remembered.

Stories disqualified
Stories that came over with mergers (I would put them in a 'best' for the merging comic)
Adaptations of books and tv serials.

Yes, we can't possibly view every single serial that was ever published in girls' comics. There would be gaps in our research and we would miss some noteworthy contenders. So our list would be by no means definitive. If the list was published, we would have to put this in a disclaimer, and say the list is subject to second-guessing and we would welcome different opinions.

[helsbels]

Life's a Ball for Nadine (Jinty). Arguably the only girls' serial to have a coloured girl as the star of the show - and in the title.

It's just my opinion, but Life's A Ball For Nadine was one of Jinty's worst stories! I always felt that events just happened around Nadine, it was always her friends who seemed to be driving the story (such as it was) forward. I was glad when it finished!

It would definitely appear in a list of the 100 worst serials in girl's comics (along with The Perfect Princess and Angela Angel Face).

[Tammyfan]

Life's a Ball for Nadine (Jinty). Arguably the only girls' serial to have a coloured girl as the star of the show - and in the title.

It's just my opinion, but Life's A Ball For Nadine was one of Jinty's worst stories! I always felt that events just happened around Nadine, it was always her friends who seemed to be driving the story (such as it was) forward. I was glad when it finished!

It would definitely appear in a list of the 100 worst serials in girl's comics (along with The Perfect Princess and Angela Angel Face).

It would not be nominated here if not for the fact that the heroine was black instead of white. I have never seen a girls' serial that had a black heroine. (Okay, so there was one in Angela's Angels (Jinty), but she one of the stars, not the star.) Though girls' comics are not intentionally racist, coloured people had always been noticeably under-represented in their serials and I give kudos to Jinty for making one the star of the show.

It's the same with Cuckoo in the Nest. Although I found the plot a bit stupid and implausible, it is nominated here because it is arguably the only girls' serial to have a female impersonator as the star of the show. It also gave girl readers insight into the boys' world, and the hero himself was in for an eye-opener as he explored the girls' world. How many times do you see that sort of thing in girls' comics?

And personal preferences cannot be allowed to interfere. For example, I never liked Molly Mills much, but I nominated her because of her longevity.

But yes, Angela Angel Face (which was originally Sandie) and The Perfect Princess - ick! Definitely among Jinty's worst. I would put She Shall Have Music in Jinty's worst as well because the heroine was so naff, though I'm sure some readers must have liked it. Another one I nominate is The Kat and Mouse Game; the heroine was so stupid and gullible that I could not work up any sympathy for her, even though a nasty girl was taking advantage of her and tried to get her expelled to cover up.

Hmm, I wonder how we would get on if we ran a thread on the 100 worst serials in girls' comics?

[Kid Robson]

Can someone remind me how to delete a comment please? I can no longer see the delete option.

[Kid Robson]

Hmm, I wonder how we would get on if we ran a thread on the 100 worst serials in girls' comics?

I suspect it would be the same list.

[Phoenix]

Hmm, I wonder how we would get on if we ran a thread on the 100 worst serials in girls' comics?

Judging by the plethora of suggestions for the 100 best, we would be snowed under. Some common sense is needed to stop people muddying the waters by just chucking lists of their favourite serials into the mix, a fair number of which would surely never get into an agreed 100 best. A few suggestions for what they are worth. First, the serials should show real quality/originality of plot/storyline, with the artwork not to be taken into consideration at all, secondly, titles like Bobby Dazzler can't qualify because they are not serials, and thirdly, it is important to state exact titles, so just putting Valda for example is unhelpful because some of the serials about her are demonstrably better than others, and given that we are looking for the 100 best overall, some would not make the cut, regardless of how much we, as individuals, like them. To answer Tammyfan's question, titles that I consider original enough to be worth putting forward for selection would include The Sad Spells Of Fay Martin and The Girlhood Of Valda from Mandy, The Chair That Rocked St. Claire's, The Frightening Fours, Skinflint School, The Dux From The Dead and I Hate Janey!, all from Judy, The Secret Of The Six Dolls, and Time After Time from Bunty. I wouldn't expect them all to get in, of course, but if I could only choose three, I would opt without question for The Sad Spells Of Fay Martin, The Frightening Fours and Time After Time.

[stevezodiac]

Would Lady Penelope from the first 52 issues of TV Century 21 qualify? I've never forgotten the story with all the clues in rhyme form and the map of the Isle of Arran.

[Tammyfan]

Hmm, I wonder how we would get on if we ran a thread on the 100 worst serials in girls' comics?

I suspect it would be the same list.

Yes, some things end up on both best and worst lists. It always happens when Fair Go (our consumer rights programme) runs the annual awards for best and worst TV ads.

[Tammyfan]

Hmm, I wonder how we would get on if we ran a thread on the 100 worst serials in girls' comics?

Judging by the plethora of suggestions for the 100 best, we would be snowed under. Some common sense is needed to stop people muddying the waters by just chucking lists of their favourite serials into the mix, a fair number of which would surely never get into an agreed 100 best. A few suggestions for what they are worth. First, the serials should show real quality/originality of plot/storyline, with the artwork not to be taken into consideration at all, secondly, titles like Bobby Dazzler can't qualify because they are not serials, and thirdly, it is important to state exact titles, so just putting Valda for example is unhelpful because some of the serials about her are demonstrably better than others, and given that we are looking for the 100 best overall, some would not make the cut, regardless of how much we, as individuals, like them. To answer Tammyfan's question, titles that I consider original enough to be worth putting forward for selection would include The Sad Spells Of Fay Martin and The Girlhood Of Valda from Mandy, The Chair That Rocked St. Claire's, The Frightening Fours, Skinflint School, The Dux From The Dead and I Hate Janey!, all from Judy, The Secret Of The Six Dolls, and Time After Time from Bunty. I wouldn't expect them all to get in, of course, but if I could only choose three, I would opt without question for The Sad Spells Of Fay Martin, The Frightening Fours and Time After Time.

Which Time after Time was that? Bunty ran two serials with that title (maybe more); one in 1997 and one in 1999. One was about a watch that was a time machine; the other was about a town where everything kept repeating.

[Phoenix]

Stories automatically included:
Stories that had sequels
Stories that were repeated
Stories that ran for at least a year
Stories that attract comment (letters, Internet, blogs, articles)
Stories that stick with people and well-remembered.

I'm sure, as you imply, that different people would approach this issue in different ways, and they can, of course, do their own thing. But I just don't see, Tammyfan, how the above list will necessarily provide you with the 100 best serials from whichever story paper you are assessing. Your criteria are questionable. For example, just because a serial has a sequel doesn't inevitably make it a top-100 story. There may well be a good number of other serials that don't spawn a sequel that are much better stories.

Serials that are repeated will have been judged interesting by the paper's editorial staff, but again the quality of the story will not necessarily have been a factor in that choice. There will be lots of worthy serials that never get repeated, none of which you would automatically include unless they matched one of your criteria.

Serials that run for a year will, by their very nature, be poorer than much shorter ones because they will be too discursive, be seriously lacking in direction and sustained tension, and will almost certainly, at various points, include digressions that give every impression of being forced to carry on through several story lines that were never envisaged in the first place before staggering eventually to a blessed conclusion.

Your remaining two criteria don't appear to have a great deal of substance to them.

Would it not be wiser to ask yourself what are the factors in the stories themselves that can make them top-100 contenders? Comparing the serial with those factors must surely be preferable to comparing the serials one at a time to your external criteria, because then many serials that don't match the criteria above will make the cut, and a good few that do won't. The resulting top-100 will therefore be more accurate.

[Phoenix]

Which Time after Time was that? Bunty ran two serials with that title (maybe more); one in 1997 and one in 1999. One was about a watch that was a time machine; the other was about a town where everything kept repeating.

It was the 1999 serial that I was referring to. It began in issue 2159, at the same time as Friend Or Foe?, and ended in 2164. It is a very interesting left-field take on the Groundhog Day idea.

[Tammyfan]

Stories automatically included:
Stories that had sequels
Stories that were repeated
Stories that ran for at least a year
Stories that attract comment (letters, Internet, blogs, articles)
Stories that stick with people and well-remembered.

I'm sure, as you imply, that different people would approach this issue in different ways, and they can, of course, do their own thing. But I just don't see, Tammyfan, how the above list will necessarily provide you with the 100 best serials from whichever story paper you are assessing. Your criteria are questionable. For example, just because a serial has a sequel doesn't inevitably make it a top-100 story. There may well be a good number of other serials that don't spawn a sequel that are much better stories.

Serials that are repeated will have been judged interesting by the paper's editorial staff, but again the quality of the story will not necessarily have been a factor in that choice. There will be lots of worthy serials that never get repeated, none of which you would automatically include unless they matched one of your criteria.

Serials that run for a year will, by their very nature, be poorer than much shorter ones because they will be too discursive, be seriously lacking in direction and sustained tension, and will almost certainly, at various points, include digressions that give every impression of being forced to carry on through several story lines that were never envisaged in the first place before staggering eventually to a blessed conclusion.

Your remaining two criteria don't appear to have a great deal of substance to them.

Would it not be wiser to ask yourself what are the factors in the stories themselves that can make them top-100 contenders? Comparing the serial with those factors must surely be preferable to comparing the serials one at a time to your external criteria, because then many serials that don't match the criteria above will make the cut, and a good few that do won't. The resulting top-100 will therefore be more accurate.

Yes, my criteria for determining 'best' serials for one comic will not be enough here for a 100 best of all time, especially as we only have 100 slots. We need different guidelines. But judging the 'best' by quality or longevity will be tricky. Moreover, I have seen some stories that I thought were real gems (such as Dracula's Daughter (Jinty) and No Haven for Hayley (Tammy)) but are not remembered.

So how about we start with:

1: Iconic serials (The Happy Days, Patty's World, The Four Marys).
2: Stories that are well-remembered (Winner Loses All!, Luv Lisa)
3: Mould-breakers and ground-breakers (Slaves of War Orphan Farm, Cuckoo in the Nest)
4: Underrated gems - but the nominator must give good grounds for why that story should be included.
5: Stories known to be the most popular ever in a title (Olympia Jones, Angel, The Sad Star (Mandy said it was her most popular-ever text story when she ran it as a picture-story)
6: Collective serials (eg the Valda serials are collectively listed as 'Valda')

What do you think?

[Tammyfan]

Which Time after Time was that? Bunty ran two serials with that title (maybe more); one in 1997 and one in 1999. One was about a watch that was a time machine; the other was about a town where everything kept repeating.

It was the 1999 serial that I was referring to. It began in issue 2159, at the same time as Friend Or Foe?, and ended in 2164. It is a very interesting left-field take on the Groundhog Day idea.

Ah, the one with the town where everything repeats.

[matrix]

[quote="Phoenix"]
Serials that run for a year will, by their very nature, be poorer than much shorter ones because they will be too discursive, be seriously lacking in direction and sustained tension, and will almost certainly, at various points, include digressions that give every impression of being forced to carry on through several story lines that were never envisaged in the first place before staggering eventually to a blessed conclusion.

Phoenix, your standards are dropping with those subjective statements, unless of course you have read every serial over one year old?

[quote="Phoenix"][
Your remaining two criteria don't appear to have a great deal of substance to them.

I believe they are important if you read some of the blogs regarding people that read these comics as children you will get a much better idea of what made the stories popular, not just left to some of our biased views.

I did not choose the 'Girl' comic serials from my favourite list, but based it on the fact that at the time these were popular stories with the readers for the reasons I stated.

[Tammyfan]

I have started work on the list, just to see how it looks. To reduce aggro, I started with some of the most obvious ones, the ones we tend to think of first, though I know some of them will be subject to revision. Here is what it looks like so far:

1. Angel (Mandy)
2. Bella (Tammy)
3. Belle (School Friend)
4. Bessie Bunter (School Friend/June/Tammy)
5. Bobby Dazzler (Judy)
6. Catch the Cat (Bunty)
7. Down with St Desmonds! (Bunty)
8. Fran’ll Fix It! (Jinty)
9. Kitty Hawke (Girl – first series)
10. Land of No Tears (Jinty)
11. Lorna Drake (Bunty)
12. Lucky’s Living Doll (June)
13. Luv Lisa (Bunty)
14. Olympia Jones (Tammy)
15. Pam of Pond Hill (Jinty/Tammy)
16. Patty’s World (Princess Tina/Pink/Mates/Girl – second series)
17. Penny’s Place (M&J/Bunty)
18. The Comp (Nikki/Bunty)
19. The Four Faces of Eve (Misty)
20. The Four Marys (Bunty)
21. The Girls from NOODLES (Diana)
22. The Happy Days (Princess Tina)
23. The Honourable S. J. (Judy)
24. The Human Zoo (Jinty)
25. The Sentinels (Misty)
26. The Silent Three (School Friend)
27. The Supercats (Spellbound/Debbie)
28. Trixie’s Treasure Chest (Debbie)
29. Valda (Mandy)
30. Wee Sue (Sandie/Tammy)
31. Wendy at War (Debbie)
32. Winner Loses All! (Misty)
33. Worlds Apart (Jinty)