Comics UK

Consider this. If World War II had never happened, the Beano of 1950 wouldn't still have been 2d. The price only stayed low because they didn't restore the original page count, instead gradually adding on average 4 pages a decade until overtaking the original pagination in 1998. Naturally, each page count increase saw a price increase (by 1d, 1p, 2p and 5p respectively). This isn't any different nowadays, with the £1 premium for extra pages (sure, it covers the price of a gift as well, but some of that money is to pay for the extra pages).

Yeah, it's strange really how long the Beano took to return to its original pagination. Mind you, sweets and chocolate bars always seem to be getting smaller these days, so perhaps it's an achievement that the Beano hasn't lost any pages since WWII.

I've said this before, but I think there was quite a lot of filler material in the comic shortly after Alan Digby became editor as well. It didn't really stop until around summer 2007 - after that, there seemed to be more comic strips and less filler than previously (although there were more reprints than there are now).

Personally, I don't regard Beano Retro as filler - it's a great way of showing what the long-running characters looked like in the past, and some characters new readers might not be familiar with. As for the others, I find Fred's Facts and Roger's Dodge Diary OK, though I agree with others in saying the Bash Street Kids jokes and drawing pages could probably be fitted on one page. In an ideal world I think it would be nice to have Singled Out or Pup Parade fitted onto one of the two filler pages in the pull-out.

Jonny Whizz wrote:Yeah, it's strange really how long the Beano took to return to its original pagination.

Not really. As always you have to look at it in context. When they were launched in the 1930s Dandy and Beano were in the minority to have as many as 28 pages. (Most pre-war comics only had 8 pages!) Even after the war, comics with only 12 or 16 pages wasn't unusual.

The 32 page format didn't really become the norm for many comics until the 1960s, and even then it'd mainly be adventure comics (Victor, Lion, etc) that had that many pages. Dandy and Beano were selling incredible numbers then, so they were still in no rush to fix something that wasn't broken. Their 16 page 3d/4d format was to their advantage, and there were still lots of comics with less than 32 pages around even then.

As the older, slimmer comics faded away and Dandy and Beano became the odd ones out at 24 pages it was inevitable they'd adopt the 32 page format. But until that point there'd been no need for them to change.

Lew Stringer wrote:

swirlythingy wrote:All right, then, let's turn the argument on its head: why haven't they claimed a publicity coup by extending the page count to, say, 40, with no price increase, but not increasing the number of comic pages, with the extra being made up of the current filler?

Probably because a 40 page comic would cost more to print? (I think you've noticed that the 44 page issues are £2.50 and that BeanoMAX costs more than the weekly?) And, seriously, if you're not happy with the current 17/32 ratio just how many posts would you use to complain about a 17/40 ratio?

I'm just playing devil's advocate. Since you said a 20 page comic wouldn't cost any less to print (or not sufficiently less to impact on the cover price), why should a 40 page comic cost more?

The 44 page issues aren't really a fair comparison, since they all come with not-really-very-free-now-are-they gifts, and you yourself have said in the past that the markup is not so much to pay for the thing as to incentivise retailers to stock extra copies.

I don't want them to do it, of course.

swirlythingy wrote: I'm just playing devil's advocate. Since you said a 20 page comic wouldn't cost any less to print (or not sufficiently less to impact on the cover price), why should a 40 page comic cost more?

You're putting words into my mouth. I didn't say a 20 page comic would cost less to print. I said the distribution and retail costs wouldn't be less.

Jonny Whizz wrote:I've said this before, but I think there was quite a lot of filler material in the comic shortly after Alan Digby became editor as well. It didn't really stop until around summer 2007 - after that, there seemed to be more comic strips and less filler than previously (although there were more reprints than there are now).

I remember you saying that, too, but I couldn't be bothered to check up on it at the time. Anyway, in the interests of science, here's the lowdown on issue #3342 (2006-08-12), four issues after the 'Danny cover', and a number chosen more or less at random:

• 2 pages of Dennis + cover = 3 comics
• 1 page of Billy Whizz = 4 comics
• Advert for Chessington = 1 paid ad
• 1 page of Singled Out = 5 comics
• 1 page of Ball Boy = 6 comics
• 2 pages of the Numskulls = 8 comics
• 1 page of Gnasher and Gnipper = 9 comics
• 1 page of Freddie Fear = 10 comics
• 2 pages of Ivy = 12 comics
• 2 page advert/filler for Monster House game = 3 paid ads
• 2 pages of Bash Street = 14 comics
• 1 page of Crazy for Daisy = 15 comics
• 0.5 page each of ads for Goodie Bag Mag and the Dandy = 1 DCT ad
• 2 pages of Minnie = 17 comics
• 2 pages of Beano Club
• 2 pages of Robbie Rebel = 19 comics
• 1 page of "Are you a geek?" = 1 filler
• 1 page of the Three Bears = 20 comics (possibly reprint?)
• 1 page of Calamity James = 21 comics (one of his last!)
• 0.5 page of bicycle competition = 3.5 paid ads
• 0.5 page of ad for Summer Special = 1.5 DCT ads
• 2 pages of Roger = 23 comics
• 1 page of ad for Beano Club = 2.5 DCT ads

So, 4 issues A.D. (After Digby), we have 23 comics (6 more than now, although I'm a bit suspicious about the Three Bears), no reprints (ditto), only one definite filler (today's typical number is 4.5 - Dodge Diary, Year of the Menace, 2*Bash Street, Fred's Foul Facts), 3.5 paid ads (two of which were pretending to be filler) and 2.5 unsold ad slots.

Now let's rewind 8 issues, to #3334 (2006-06-17):

• 3 pages of Dennis + cover = 4 comics
• 1 page of Rhyme Time = 1 filler
• 2.5 pages of Derek the Sheep = 6.5 comics
• 0.5 pages of ad for Beano Football Special = 0.5 DCT ads
• 1 page of Ball Boy = 7.5 comics (this is the one about badgers which was accidentally reprinted after a few issues, but I'm not sure if this is the original or the reprint)
• 2 pages of Nicky Nutjob = 9.5 comics (whatever happened to him, eh?)
• 1 page of reprinted Ivy = 1 reprint
• 1 page of Gnasher and Gnipper = 10.5 comics
• 2 pages of "Pull a mug like Plug competition" = 3 fillers
• 2 pages of Bash Street = 12.5 comics
• 2 pages of Freddie Fear = 14.5 comics
• 2 pages of the Numskulls = 16.5 comics
• 2 pages of Beano Club
• 2 pages of Minnie = 18.5 comics
• 1 page of Bea = 19.5 comics
• 1 page of ad for Beano Club = 1.5 DCT ads
• 1.5 pages of Big Brad Wolf = 21 comics
• 0.5 pages of ad for next week's Beno = 2 DCT ads
• 2 pages of Roger = 23 comics
• 1 page of ad for Power Rangers SPD = 1 paid ad

Exact same number of comics (even taking one-offs like Derek into account), 3 fillers, one reprint (although Ivy wasn't in reprints at the time), one ad and a total of 2 company ads.

So, discounting the Beano Club pages, both issues have 7 pages of non-comics. The difference is that in #3342, 6 of these were adverts of some stripe, but in #3334, only 3 were. In both cases the surplus was made up with reprints and filler.

In summary: the amount of filler decreased after Digby became editor. From this admittedly extremely narrow sample, it looks as if Jonny couldn't be more wrong...

Lew Stringer wrote:

swirlythingy wrote: I'm just playing devil's advocate. Since you said a 20 page comic wouldn't cost any less to print (or not sufficiently less to impact on the cover price), why should a 40 page comic cost more?

You're putting words into my mouth. I didn't say a 20 page comic would cost less to print. I said the distribution and retail costs wouldn't be less.

OK, I'm officially confused now (not helped by the fact I think you switched one of your negatives the wrong way there).

If we assume that the distribution and retail costs of one issue of the Beano are constant, how much of the cover price goes on printing? And, since £2.50 issues enable retailers to claim larger profits, presumably printing costs don't escalate by as much as £1 per 12 pages?

Put another way, if DC Thomson opened a comic shop on their own premises in Dundee, stocking their own titles, with no middleman costs incurred, running at break-even point, how much would one issue of the Beano cost?

I really don't have time to get into your hypothetical arguments. Let's stick to the facts.

It's not that confusing:

Adding pages to a comic would add higher print costs to distribution/retail costs, so the cover price would have to rise.

Removing pages from a comic would reduce print costs slightly BUT distribution and retail overheads would remain the same so the cover price wouldn't reduce (or at least not significantly) because distributors and retailers would still expect to receive the same money. (Not to mention that a 20 page comic would look like it was poorer value for money.)

I don't know how it breaks down exactly but those are the basics.

I really don't see what the problem is. Dandy and Beano (along with Commando) are already the cheapest comics on the stands so why worry about semantics? The only reason you suggested cutting Beano down to 20 pages was because you personally don't like the "filler". Well, some readers do. We've established that cutting the comic down to 20 pages won't give you any extra new content (and would sometimes give you less strip pages than you get now) so just skip the filler and read the pages you do like.

Could be wrong about this, but isn't it most cost-effective to print multiples of 32 anyway? I'd be surprised if you saved more than pennies by dropping from 32 to 20.

•1 page of the Three Bears = 20 comics (possibly reprint?)

The Three Bears at that time will have been David Parkins reprints. Also, the Ball Boy strip that got reprinted was the original one, I think the reprint appeared November the same year (not quite as bad as one Joe Jitsu strip which appeared two issues after it was first printed).

I think the editor changed around the time of issue 3334. I don't think the Danny cover was Alan's first issue itself, but it stands out as a watershed moment. I can't remember there ever being much filler content when Euan was editor. However, I think issue 3334 probably contained an unusually large amount of filler content - it was usually just one or two pages, but it was quite noticeable because I wasn't used to having any filler content. When I started reading the Beano, it was just comics, fan pages and adverts.

Jonny Whizz wrote:I think the editor changed around the time of issue 3334. I don't think the Danny cover was Alan's first issue itself, but it stands out as a watershed moment. I can't remember there ever being much filler content when Euan was editor.

OK, then, if that's your theory, let's have a look at #3326 (2006-04-22):

• 2 pages + cover of Dennis = 3 comics
• 1 page of Billy Whizz = 4 comics
• 1 page of advert for Hubba Bubba = 1 paid ad
• 1 page of Joe Jitsu = 5 comics
• 1 page of another advert for Hubba Bubba = 2 paid ads
• 2 pages of Minnie = 7 comics
• 2 pages of the Numskulls = 9 comics
• 1 page of Singled Out = 10 comics (ghosted by Nigel Parkinson)
• 1 page of Rhyme Time = 1 filler
• 1 page of Little Plum = 11 comics
• 1 page of Colin the Vet = 12 comics
• 3 pages of Bash Street = 15 comics
• 0.5 pages each of ads for next week's Beano and this week's Dandy = 1 DCT ad
• 4 pages of Hot-Rod Cow = 19 comics
• 2 pages of Beano Club
• 2 pages of Ivy = 21 comics
• 2 pages of Big Brad Wolf = 23 comics
• 2 pages of Roger the Dodger = 25 comics
• 1 page of ad for Beano Club = 2 DCT ads

25 comics, 2 paid-for ads and 2 company ones, plus Rhyme Time filler and the Beano Club. Zero reprints, and four of the comics were part one of a Kev F serial. (Wow - this is actually making me nostalgic.)

Of course, this isn't exactly a typical issue layout. What I really need is some sort of year-long database to be able to comment properly on any changes in the ratio of comics to filler. I think the main lesson here is that the amount of filler increases in inverse proportion to the amount of ad space successfully sold.

Next issue preview (3590) is already up. Pup Parade's in again this week apparently.
http://www.beano.com/beano-comic/issue-3590

Isn't this supposed to be a discussion on stories on the curent week's issue? It seems to be turning into a chat about other subjects which should be in seperate posts?

That conversation ended over a week ago.

On topic, I wish adverts and competitions, like this week's Lego Technic one, would stop bumping Bash Street off the centre pages. It's happened twice in the last month.

Editorial probably agrees, but is almost certainly told that they get more income if they sacrifice the middle pages.

I certainly agree, but then again I don't work for DCT