Comics UK

abacus wrote:

Lew Stringer wrote:

abacus wrote:Comics whether expensive or not are well hidden from the public in specialist shops not in the area you live,

I see you live in Leicester. There's a Forbidden Planet International on Silver Street in the city centre. Well stocked too.

Even so comics mentioned on your blog I have not found in there.
Generally the majority of people are not near a comic shop and searching online is a matter of luck.
I like to flick through a comic before deciding whether to buy or not.
We did have another comic shop in town that closed down.It opened mid morning .i go into town early and was on my way home before it used to open

(thank you edit button for allowing me to correct spelling mistakes which occurs often)

Which comics? If I've said they're available from specialist comics shops then FPI will be able to order them for you. I can understand you want to see the contents before you buy but most comics have preview pages online which give you a good idea of what they're about.

I'm quite lucky in that there are a couple of comic shops nearby, both small and stocking mainstream DC and Marvel titles as well as the occasional IDW; Valiant; Image title. One also has a small selection of "local" small press titles, most of which don't even reach the standard of the American small press explosion of years ago, and which do nothing for me. But that's my taste, or the lack of it. Edinburgh and Glasgow have branches of FP, but remember, a lot of fans do not like going to them for anything, never mind comics, (Look for a couple of the blogs with histories of the Glasgow comic wars, as they have been titled by one blogger who lived through some of it) and use local alternatives.
All of that is part of why I prefer to buy digital editions from the likes of Comixology, where you can sample some pages from each title.
Having no idea nowadays of page rates, I can't comment on what creators earn as compared to the '60's, but from what I learned from pros a decade or so ago, creator rights when they started were supposed to enable writers and artists to earn more and keep their work after publication. That must mean that creators not earning equivalent or better rates nowadays, are not negotiating hard enough with publishers. So why are comics so expensive? Supermarkets are part of the problem, as they are with food and other products, but local newsagents just do not stock many comics. Perhaps if reps from publishing companies got off their bahookies, took comics more seriously and did a good sell job on newsagent chains and local shops, fans might actually be able to buy the product. Vastly improved distribution which would improve sales should stabilise or lower prices.
In my continuing quest to find comics in Central Scotland, I went to Airdrie yesterday and found no DC reprints; no Doctor Who - apart from the juvenile "adventures" - no Marvel reprints, no Commando etc. in WHS or any of the wee newsagents in the town. Publishers can't sell them if they aren't in the shops and telling fans to go to specialist shops is unrealistic for many.
Why can I buy Commando on Comixology but not in my local newsagent?

paw broon wrote:
Having no idea nowadays of page rates, I can't comment on what creators earn as compared to the '60's, but from what I learned from pros a decade or so ago, creator rights when they started were supposed to enable writers and artists to earn more and keep their work after publication. That must mean that creators not earning equivalent or better rates nowadays, are not negotiating hard enough with publishers.

That's quite a presumption to put it mildly. Do you think we've never tried that over the decades we've worked in comics? The facts are that British comics have a page rate based on the allocated budget. And with the comparatively low sales of today's comics and magazines the budget for originated material isn't massive. There is no room for negotiation, so blaming the creators is pointless. It's a case of take it or leave it, with plenty of other cartoonists and writers ready to step in. That's been the case for as long as I've worked in comics (33 years). It might be different in American comics with superstar creators and exclusive contracts, but not in the UK.

Creator rights? You do know that work done for The Beano, Commando, 2000AD, etc is owned by the publishers?

paw broon wrote: Having no idea nowadays of page rates, I can't comment on what creators earn as compared to the '60's, but from what I learned from pros a decade or so ago, creator rights when they started were supposed to enable writers and artists to earn more and keep their work after publication. That must mean that creators not earning equivalent or better rates nowadays, are not negotiating hard enough with publishers. So why are comics so expensive? Supermarkets are part of the problem, as they are with food and other products, but local newsagents just do not stock many comics. Perhaps if reps from publishing companies got off their bahookies, took comics more seriously and did a good sell job on newsagent chains and local shops, fans might actually be able to buy the product. Vastly improved distribution which would improve sales should stabilise or lower prices.

Every word of that is nonsense.

stevezodiac wrote:I mentioned to someone the other day that When the Beano came out in 1938 it was 2d in old money and by 1968 was only 3d (or 4d). So a penny or tuppence hike in thirty years. Nowadays magazine and comic increase by ten shillings a step. But then a weekly wage in 1938 was probably a fiver whereas now its more like £400.

The average weekly wage in 1938 was £3 9/- (£3.45) and in 2015 was £521, about 150 times more. The Beano was 2d (1p) in 1938 so if it was still largely black and white and full of text stories, it should be £1.50 now. It isn't, it's in full colour and every story is comic strip. Still comparable value for money.

"Every word of that is nonsense." NP

Every word of that is nonsense.
Opinions, opinions, we've all got them

Publishers doing some work and pushing hard for their comics in newsagents = more comics in more outlets
More comics in more outlets = more people seeing and buying them.
More people buying them = more income for publishers and shops.
Higher sales = at least, continuation of the product and, perhaps more titles.
But I could be wrong. To quote The Big Sleep, " I make many mistakes"

paw broon wrote:"Every word of that is nonsense." NP

Every word of that is nonsense.
Opinions, opinions, we've all got them

Publishers doing some work and pushing hard for their comics in newsagents = more comics in more outlets
More comics in more outlets = more people seeing and buying them.
More people buying them = more income for publishers and shops.
Higher sales = at least, continuation of the product and, perhaps more titles.
But I could be wrong. To quote The Big Sleep, " I make many mistakes"

What you propose above is exactly what used to happen, and still does happen, albeit with children's magazines rather than comics now. Why can't the shops be packed with traditional comics like they were 50 years ago? Because comic sales were on a steady decline for decades, and those sort of comics mostly fell out of favour eventually. British comics were always fighting against falling sales. Look at these weekly sales figures from those so-called "happy times"...

EAGLE sales in 1953: 750,000
Sales in 1962: 411,976

GIRL sales in 1953: 500,000
Sales in 1962: 276,895

ROVER sales in 1953: 394.301
Sales in 1962: 180,275

ADVENTURE sales in 1953: 339,715
Sales in 1962: 180,275

SCHOOL FRIEND sales in 1953: 945,715
Sales in 1961: 414,000

In every case, sales had dropped around 50% in ten years. Figures taken from What Children Think of Their Comics by George H. Pumphrey (p.1964).

As we know, comic sales continued to decline and are just a fraction of that now.
There's no sound reason why publishers and retailers would want the traditional comics model back. Yes, there might be the occasional welcome maverick like The Phoenix with a bit of money behind it but we're not going to see a return to the number of titles published in the 50s, 70s, 80s, whatever. If there is a future for British comics to grow it's in graphic novels, specialist shops, online subscriptions, convention sales, digital comics etc. Forget newsagents as the main location for comics. Those days are gone. They can make more money from selling birthday cards and booze these days. Time moves on and comics have to adapt to survive, not pine for a return to a rose-tinted past.

Obviously sales of comics will decline, in the golden age no TV , no computers ,for the youngsters comics were a a main source of entertainment.Where I agree with paw is that if you feel that you would like to read a comic and the chances of the general public doing that are slim.You have first got to have the idea to read a comic and then you have to search for comics as advertising publicity is almost non existant.There are tv promotions for Marvel comics and I would think that would be the main starting point for anyone interested in comics today.As for other comics who knows whats out there?( I'm talking general public not the few people that read comic blogs).
Comics are advertised in comics ,small ads in magazines or newspapers would help(too expensive I hear the shout)so be it.
If you want to walk a mile not wanting to take steps doesn't help much

abacus wrote:Obviously sales of comics will decline, in the golden age no TV , no computers ,for the youngsters comics were a a main source of entertainment.Where I agree with paw is that if you feel that you would like to read a comic and the chances of the general public doing that are slim.You have first got to have the idea to read a comic and then you have to search for comics as advertising publicity is almost non existant.There are tv promotions for Marvel comics and I would think that would be the main starting point for anyone interested in comics today.As for other comics who knows whats out there?( I'm talking general public not the few people that read comic blogs).
Comics are advertised in comics ,small ads in magazines or newspapers would help(too expensive I hear the shout)so be it.
If you want to walk a mile not wanting to take steps doesn't help much

It's very easy to say how comics should be promoted when it's not your money taking that risk isn't it? I take it you do know that every new British comic and every free gift issue used to be advertised on TV? The reason publishers stopped doing it was because it was no longer financially viable and did not prevent the decline in sales.

What TV promotions for Marvel Comics? Do you mean the ads for the Marvel magazine partworks published by Hachette etc? Those magazines/models that newsagents only stock for the first several issues, rely heavily on subscriptions, and cost more than most comics? You'd be happy to buy a comic based on that system then, with each issue costing you £5 upwards by direct debit?

Lew Stringer wrote:

abacus wrote:
It's very easy to say how comics should be promoted when it's not your money taking that risk isn't it? I take it you do know that every new British comic and every free gift issue used to be advertised on TV? The reason publishers stopped doing it was because it was no longer financially viable and did not prevent the decline in sales.

What TV promotions for Marvel Comics?

Lew I mentioned magazine and newspaper advertising as a way forward to reach more people I never advocated tv adverts.Superheroes comics are at the moment advertised on tv not probably by marvel but advertising marvel monthly comic books the starter being £1.99and of course you will mention the movies as helping sell the comics also.
The point was create a comic , tell no one about it and see how many sells.
I am late for town visit hope it makes sense because I havn't time to check it.

abacus wrote: Lew I mentioned magazine and newspaper advertising as a way forward to reach more people I never advocated tv adverts.

What? That's exactly what you advocated: "There are tv promotions for Marvel comics and I would think that would be the main starting point for anyone interested in comics today."

abacus wrote:Superheroes comics are at the moment advertised on tv not probably by marvel but advertising marvel monthly comic books the starter being £1.99and of course you will mention the movies as helping sell the comics also.

Those fortnightly reprint books settle into their regular price of £9.99 with the third issue, will be hard to find in newsagents after the first several issues, and rely heavily on direct debit subscriptions. Hardly the business model you wanted for British comics is it?

Know your comics history. The things you're proposing; TV ads, newspaper/magazine ads, have already been done! They were a regular thing years ago and comics publishers eventually stopped doing it because it was no longer financially viable. As a senior IPC editor told me in 1986, those TV ads gave the comics a temporary boost for a week or two but then sales plummeted as soon as the ads were not on TV. It became difficult to gauge print runs and was costing the publishers too much money for the number of comics they'd sell. That's why they stopped TV advertising. That's fact, not opinion by the way.

I don't know much of how blogs work but I assume you get feed back of the number of hits per day.
Assuming that a lot of those hits are regular daily readers.
You can roughly calculate how many potential customers you could have for items you are selling.
If you find that's enough then fine, you don't need to further advertise.
I am happy just to be a collector of old comics with bits of knowledge I pick up here and there on the subject.I buy the odd new comic now and again but the future of comics is for the youngsters of this and the next generation and not my concern.
Although I would like it to succeed.

abacus wrote:I don't know much of how blogs work but I assume you get feed back of the number of hits per day.
Assuming that a lot of those hits are regular daily readers.
You can roughly calculate how many potential customers you could have for items you are selling.
If you find that's enough then fine, you don't need to further advertise.
I am happy just to be a collector of old comics with bits of knowledge I pick up here and there on the subject.I buy the odd new comic now and again but the future of comics is for the youngsters of this and the next generation and not my concern.
Although I would like it to succeed.

I don't see how my blog is relevant to the discussion. We were talking about mainstream companies promoting their comics. The PR they send me, and the comics I choose to plug off my own bat, are hardly going to bring in thousands of readers for them. Publishers use other means than just my blog to reach their main audience.

Anyway, this debate is veering all over the place and facts will be ignored or forgotten again and again as always so I'm out of it now.

Leo Baxendale definitely gets 'royalties' from all-British characters he created decades ago, but he is the exception rather than the rule; mind you, if he is still on a small royalty per issue sold rather than a fixed percentage of the profits, I don't expect he earns all that much income from it going by todays' palrty sales of the weekly BEANO* ---not like musician Gerry Rafferty, who earned 80 000 a year in royalties right 'til he died, for one song: BAKER STREET!!!!!!


* I assume the annuals still sell well, though......

Missed out on Jag #2 from 1968 on Ebay today and 40 TV Action comics from 1972 which went for £112. Not a bad price considering but I didn't want them THAT much. Earlier in the week I also missed out on Justice Traps the Guilty #1 from the 1950s and Challengers of the Unknown #1 which both went for a little more than I was willing to pay. Hey Ho, there's always tomorrow!

I was also tempted today by three bound volumes of King Comic Series: Crack Action Comics, Crime Patrol and Police Comic. They looked really interesting but after much procrastination I decided to save my pennies for something that I really wanted. Reminded me of my thought processes as a young boy when my pocket money would only allow a certain number of comics each week but I always wanted more so I had to choose!