Comics Britannia reviewed

Lew Stringer · Post by **Lew Stringer** » 20 Sep 2007, 00:44

Captain Storm wrote:The likes of Steve Holland should be celebrated for being the stalwart for the British comics genre and exhaustingly researching every nook and cranny of this much loved market.What a great shame he wasn't included in the program.Now that I would pay to see,along with the likes of Shaqui,Lew and Kashgar,not forgetting Peter Gray of course.Real fans!Get these four together and we would have a program that would leave us all breathless.

Sounds like the sort of comic panels we have at conventions. Sadly, I don't think the general BBC Four viewer would be that interested. It's understandable why Comics Britannia took a rather populist view on its subject. Cram in too many comics and it'd just confuse the viewer. Pity it took a few liberties along the way though.

Incidentally, the shows did use a real fan, - Paul Gravett. I've known Paul for over 20 years and he's definitely dedicated to the world of comics, as evidenced by his books. (Not that anyone was suggesting otherwise, but just thought I'd mention that.)

Lew

Shaqui · Post by **Shaqui** » 20 Sep 2007, 01:48

Captain Storm wrote:The likes of Steve Holland should be celebrated for being the stalwart for the British comics genre and exhaustingly researching every nook and cranny of this much loved market.What a great shame he wasn't included in the program.Now that I would pay to see,along with the likes of Shaqui, Lew and Kashgar,not forgetting Peter Gray of course. Real fans! Get these four together and we would have a program that would leave us all breathless.

Ugh!

I'm a shy and somewhat private person who would baulk at the thought of doing a panel or *gacch* TV appearance...

Forums, yes... only too delighted to help. Put a spotlight on me and it's 'help me, I'm melting... ' time...

Kashgar · Post by **Kashgar** » 20 Sep 2007, 10:30

The gobshite radar is twitching again. Let's do a 'Late Night Review does Comics UK' and I bags be Tom Paulin!

Captain Storm · Post by **Captain Storm** » 20 Sep 2007, 20:32

Kashgar wrote:

The gobshite radar is twitching again.

???????

Little Squelchy Thing · Post by **Little Squelchy Thing** » 22 Sep 2007, 13:03

I agree with the general consensus that the Comics Britannia series has been very good, if not as in-depth as we'd like. I was particularly saddened to see the IPC humour comics given such short shrift in the first programme.

The current BBC comics love-in continues on radio, too, as Radio 4 aired a programme about 2000AD this morning. It's on the Radio 4 website now, if anyone fancies a listen.

Peter Gray · Post by **Peter Gray** » 23 Sep 2007, 17:49

Oor Wullie 70th on at 7:00 tonight BBC 4 don't forget...

Kashgar · Post by **Kashgar** » 24 Sep 2007, 14:21

For all those who watched the repeat of the Oor Wullie prog last night I can confirm that visually Wullie was based on R.D.Low's son Ronald and not on Dudley Watkins' son Roger as current Wullie artist Peter Davidson thought. Dudley's son wasn't born until 1943 a full seven years after Wullie's first appearance in the Sunday Post.
Wullie and the Broons, still to my mind the best comic strips produced by anyone anywhere and when DDW was at the height of his powers 1940-1960 he personally never drew anything better. On another strand someone asked whether mainstream comic strips ever made anyone laugh out loud. Well plenty of DDW's classic Broons and oor Wullie strips certainly did and indeed still do in my case. Brilliant Watkins' visualisations and horse doctor doses of the Scot's vernacular are an unbeatable mix.

MikeC · Post by **MikeC** » 24 Sep 2007, 22:22

Little Squelchy Thing wrote:I agree with the general consensus that the Comics Britannia series has been very good, if not as in-depth as we'd like. I was particularly saddened to see the IPC humour comics given such short shrift in the first programme.

But IPC really followed after the originals, didn't they? They didn't create anything new which changed the face of comics. Probably why they weren't identified as being so important to the story.

MikeC · Post by **MikeC** » 24 Sep 2007, 22:28

Kashgar wrote:Brilliant Watkins' visualisations and horse doctor doses of the Scot's vernacular are an unbeatable mix.

Are you Scottish, Kashgar?

Just interested as I always found the language in Oor Wullie and the Broons a bit odd. Very proper with the odd local word lobbed in. No criticism - this was what Burns pretty much did two hundred years earlier. Means the strip is easy to read and has a certain feel. Nothing near to a real vernacular, though, especially Dundee's.

Today's strips must be completely impenetrable with their ridiculously false and pretentious 'Scots flourishes'. Like those dolls in tartan, it doesn't work for me.

Cap Haggis · Post by **Cap Haggis** » 24 Sep 2007, 23:51

Mike I think if they wrote "Oor Wullie" and the "Broons" in its natural Doric (the spoken form (or dialect) of Scots/English in parts of the Dundee area and the North East of Scotland -) then few people outside of that area would understand it easily. I'm not sure of the History of the strips but there original audience was, I would imagine Scotland and the Scot sin other areas of UK etc (have to admit I am amazed both have strips "travel" so well) and in particular from DCTs base in the North East of Scotland (?) Probably the Anglofying of the Scots language in these strips may have initially been more for the benefit of Lowland Scots to understand the strip rather than the English, Welsh,Irish. I thought it was actually a brave move to have the character s speck in this way to be honest instead of the "English" that no one actually speaks. But you raise an intersting question what would the strips be like then in the "real" dialect of the North East area or even working class Scots ! (Viz anyone

)

Peter Gray · Post by **Peter Gray** » 24 Sep 2007, 23:52

But IPC really followed after the originals, didn't they? They didn't create anything new which changed the face of comics. Probably why they weren't identified as being so important to the story.

Well I think Oink was very ahead of its time...now loved... But at the time found it hard to find an audience...so Oink should have been mentioned...

Fun Horror in comics was a fad in the early 70's...i.e Monster Fun...Shiver and Shake into Whoopee...

Buster without no doubt should have been celebrated...
Sweeny Toddler...Bumpkin Billionaires...Whoopee!!
School Fun first fun school comic
Nipper for junior readers half size comic
Jackpot comic with its fun prizes and competitions...design the cover..win your height..supermarket dash...
Cheeky comic showing the week through the comic..
Whizzer and chips 2 comics in one..

DC Thomson's Sparky...
Nutty....Bananaman first British comic animation telly star
Victorian comics...
Nursery comics

Look-in
Tv 21
Tv comics
Still loads for the program to cover........
and Fleetway had many interesting things the program could explore...But missing out Buster unbelievable...40 years means nothing these days then...

Lew Stringer · Post by **Lew Stringer** » 24 Sep 2007, 23:56

MikeC wrote:
Little Squelchy Thing wrote:I agree with the general consensus that the Comics Britannia series has been very good, if not as in-depth as we'd like. I was particularly saddened to see the IPC humour comics given such short shrift in the first programme.
But IPC really followed after the originals, didn't they? They didn't create anything new which changed the face of comics. Probably why they weren't identified as being so important to the story.

Yes, sadly that's something we have to accept. Comics Britannia only focused on the main "movers and shakers" of the past 70 years. It wasn't intending to be a thorough history of British comics.

However, their dismissal of all non-Baxendale humour comics from 1969 onwards was somewhat biased and unfair, I thought.

Lew

Cap Haggis · Post by **Cap Haggis** » 25 Sep 2007, 00:02

Yeah was pretty surprised that Buster especially wasn't mentioned at all but overall I thought it was a pretty good series - would have been nice to have had more on the IPC strips and comics all the same and something more than a passing mention on the underground scene (Hunt Emerson etcc) Possiblt a bit less on Alan Moore (although he has been very influential and is a big fav of mine - although won't be buying "Lost Girls" anytime soon - not a prude just sounds to arty for me)

Mike - re reading my reply I think I just reiterated what you said - sorry (and sorry if I didn't

)

Lew Stringer · Post by **Lew Stringer** » 25 Sep 2007, 01:27

Peter Gray wrote: and Fleetway had many interesting things the program could explore...But missing out Buster unbelievable...40 years means nothing these days then...

I think we have to put aside personal favourites and objectively look at what changed the industry. Dandy, Eagle and Viz did. Buster and Oink didn't. The programmes were pitched at educating the "man in the street" about the movers and shakers of the industry. Watkins, Baxendale, Reid, Mills, Moore etc have made a huge difference to comics whereas most of us haven't. Most of us entertain but we haven't altered the direction of the comics industry in the way they have. That's what Comics Britannia was all about.

Lew

Kashgar · Post by **Kashgar** » 25 Sep 2007, 11:06

MikeC wrote:
Kashgar wrote:Brilliant Watkins' visualisations and horse doctor doses of the Scot's vernacular are an unbeatable mix.
Are you Scottish, Kashgar?

Just interested as I always found the language in Oor Wullie and the Broons a bit odd. Very proper with the odd local word lobbed in. No criticism - this was what Burns pretty much did two hundred years earlier. Means the strip is easy to read and has a certain feel. Nothing near to a real vernacular, though, especially Dundee's.

Today's strips must be completely impenetrable with their ridiculously false and pretentious 'Scots flourishes'. Like those dolls in tartan, it doesn't work for me.

No Mike not Scottish, a Geordie through and through. Re the language in the Broons and Oor Wullie I'm referring to the language used in the strips in the first twenty years or so not the 'pan loafy' times that followed which as you say tended to pop in the odd vernacular word here and there as no more than a sort of cultural afterthought.

Comics UK