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philcom55 wrote:To my mind Russell Davies had a much better grasp of structure, producing stories that stood on their own terms regardless of any sub-plots that were being developed in the background. By contrast Moffat reminds me of so many modern comicbook and TV scripters who simply avoid any sense of narrative resolution by 'trumping' each new cliffhanger with an even more dramatic one. He certainly seems to be full of ideas but in the long run his storytelling is hopelessly undisciplined - if not downright lazy. IMHO this is randomized formulaism masquerading as perpetual novelty (and I'm afraid it's the main reason why old-style Doctor Who stories tend to be so boring if you watch them from end-to-end).

I did like the lizard woman though!

- Phil Rushton

That's exactly how I feel about the current scripts, only could not have articulated it as well as Phil.

And, Yes, I liked the Lizard woman as well!

tony ingram wrote:Boring? Old Doctor Who boring?

Some of the old stories were very dragged out just to fit six parts, when they could have told a better constructed story in half the time.

Indeed, some, perhaps many, were a bit dragged out. Still, better than cramming so much false emotion and o.t.t. clifffhangers into the current version. Didn't switch it on this week and probably wont watch on repeat. Having watched Doctor Who from An Unearthly Child right through, I do prefer the older stories, dragged out or not. This isn't because I grew up with a previous version or Doctor(s), simply that I prefer a well told, entertaining story without all the gimmicks currently being used.
Eccleston was crap, Tennent was superb but quickly began to suffer from those exaggerated emotions and Smith is one of the best Doctors, period. Pity about the supercharged everything.

tony ingram wrote:Boring? Old Doctor Who boring?

Oh, I loved the early series - particularly Hartnell and Troughton - and I also liked the cliffhanger endings; it's just that they were only intended to be viewed one episode at a time. Try to watch a complete storyline in one sitting and it's hard not to get bored in spite of yourself; besides which I find that the edge of my seat becomes increasingly uncomfortable after about half-an-hour!

Doctor Who has always been at its best when steered by an outstanding story editor like Russell Davies or David Whitaker - even though they don't write the majority of the scripts themselves. In my opinion Moffat is excellent at ideas but less effective in editing out the good ones from the bad (in spite of which I agree that Smith has a great deal of potential).

- Phil Rushton

As I said above, I had been watching Doctor Who from the start and it was something I never wanted to miss. Wish there had been vcr machines back then. Now, my wife and I have sort of replaced that must watch slot with one for Primeval.
I hope you've all seen this weeks episode. Claustrophobic, nice effects, machinations, good lighting, well done monsters, time travel, a bit of humour and, the (supposed) bad guy wasn't even in it this time.

Don't we all wish VCRs had been around in 1963! Then there might not be so many lost episodes.

Digifiend wrote:Don't we all wish VCRs had been around in 1963! Then there might not be so many lost episodes.

There were, only they cost an absolute fortune (I think about the equivalent of £15,000 in today's money) and IIRC they had reel to reel tapes that only recorded about an hour at most? I recall seeing a competition in a 1965 or 1966 TVTimes to win one.

Going back to the topic I have enjoyed this series and I felt as if some of the ideas could have been explored in more depth. I feel that the one-eyed woman sub-plot could have been extended and I am sure that the finale could have easily been a two parter without any degradation in value, possibly even an increase.

But then again, I am viewing public and not privy to all the background going-ons that lead to a series being scripted, blocked, acted etc. I did like the way that the Flesh wasn't just done in one episode and straight into the finale and it even could have been the whole of this mini-season. But the tendency does seem to be full steam ahead for most shows and at times, you are left breathless at the end. I know that the finale did not seem to last more than five minutes, but when I checked my watch, I was gobsmacked to see how much time had flown by. Now to me, that is the mark of a good episode. It seems to fly past in a timey-wimey sort of way and you feel that you have lost most of the time as that show could not have been that long as it was so enjoyable.

Shaqui wrote:

Digifiend wrote:Don't we all wish VCRs had been around in 1963! Then there might not be so many lost episodes.

There were, only they cost an absolute fortune (I think about the equivalent of £15,000 in today's money) and IIRC they had reel to reel tapes that only recorded about an hour at most? I recall seeing a competition in a 1965 or 1966 TVTimes to win one.

Yes, Bob Monkhouse bought one, as shown in that excellent recent documentary about him. He had tons of shows on tape but not Doctor Who as far as I know.

philcom55 wrote:

tony ingram wrote:Boring? Old Doctor Who boring?

Oh, I loved the early series - particularly Hartnell and Troughton - and I also liked the cliffhanger endings; it's just that they were only intended to be viewed one episode at a time. Try to watch a complete storyline in one sitting and it's hard not to get bored in spite of yourself; besides which I find that the edge of my seat becomes increasingly uncomfortable after about half-an-hour!

Doctor Who has always been at its best when steered by an outstanding story editor like Russell Davies or David Whitaker - even though they don't write the majority of the scripts themselves. In my opinion Moffat is excellent at ideas but less effective in editing out the good ones from the bad (in spite of which I agree that Smith has a great deal of potential).

- Phil Rushton

Davies did write the majority of the scripts during his tenure, though-the ratio of scripts written by showrunner as opposed to by guest writers is exactly the same under Moffat as it was under Davies, about two thirds to one. Personally, I hated most of Davies' stuff-it just wasn't Doctor Who, to me. I'm enjoying Moffat's version more than pretty much anything since 1989.

So far of the Dr Who seasons since it came back a few years ago - I have liked the two part "Impossible Planet" (Introduced the `Ood`) and `Midnight` best!

My fave all time stories are "The Mind Robber" and "Fury From The Deep" I liked the style of Season 7 (Jon Perwees first) a lot too.

Lew Stringer wrote:

Shaqui wrote:

Digifiend wrote:Don't we all wish VCRs had been around in 1963! Then there might not be so many lost episodes.

There were, only they cost an absolute fortune (I think about the equivalent of £15,000 in today's money) and IIRC they had reel to reel tapes that only recorded about an hour at most? I recall seeing a competition in a 1965 or 1966 TVTimes to win one.

Yes, Bob Monkhouse bought one, as shown in that excellent recent documentary about him. He had tons of shows on tape but not Doctor Who as far as I know.

Quite right, Lew. I believe the TV archive & historian group Kaleidoscope were involved in cataloging the material, which amounted to good many hours of otherwise lost material.

alanultron5 wrote:So far of the Dr Who seasons since it came back a few years ago - I have liked the two part "Impossible Planet" (Introduced the `Ood`) and `Midnight` best!

My fave all time stories are "The Mind Robber" and "Fury From The Deep" I liked the style of Season 7 (Jon Perwees first) a lot too.

The Mind Robber is my all time favourite story. It's just so imaginative and totally surreal.

tony ingram wrote: The Mind Robber is my all time favourite story. It's just so imaginative and totally surreal.

And of course the 2 late changes imposed upon it (the small budget extra epsiode added to the beginning, and the temporary replacement of Frazer Hines who had chicken pox), both added to it! Just a shame that the model aerial view of the forest of words bore no resemblence to the real set.

Power fan wrote:The Mind Robber...the small budget extra epsiode added to the beginning...

That was THE greatest Dr Who episode in those days! We were obessed with it at school! Looking at it now, it's obvious it's in the studio, but in 1968(?) you couldn't tell what was going on! Genuinely exciting! For some reason i always think of the song 'Those Were The Days' by Mary Hopkin when reminded of that episode. Ah, simpler times.