Comics Britannia reviewed

Lew Stringer · Post by **Lew Stringer** » 09 Sep 2007, 20:55

Thanks to the BBC I've seen the trilogy of Comics Britannia documentaries and have given them an extensive review on my blog:

http://lewstringer.blogspot.com/2007/09 ... iewed.html

First programme goes out tomorrow night (Monday 10th Sept) BBC Four 9.00pm.

Lew

Muffy · Post by **Muffy** » 10 Sep 2007, 11:00

Great review Lew.

The Johnathan Ross programme next Sunday on BBC4 should be good too as he is one of the most high profile comic fans.

You mention IPC humour group editor Bob Paynter - did you see much of him when at IPC? I always wondered who at IPC keep Monster Fun alive (in the form of mostly reprints in the Buster & Monster Fun Holiday Special) until 1995

- these included some Tom Thug stories too. I often wonder who was the editor of Monster Fun and which title they moved onto after the merger with Buster in 1976, and who edited the Buster from then on .

Did Monster Fun/ Buster have any sub editors - too many questions maybe

Lew Stringer · Post by **Lew Stringer** » 10 Sep 2007, 13:01

Muffy wrote:Great review Lew.

The Johnathan Ross programme next Sunday on BBC4 should be good too as he is one of the most high profile comic fans.

You mention IPC humour group editor Bob Paynter - did you see much of him when at IPC? I always wondered who at IPC keep Monster Fun alive (in the form of mostly reprints in the Buster & Monster Fun Holiday Special) until 1995 - these included some Tom Thug stories too. I often wonder who was the editor of Monster Fun and which title they moved onto after the merger with Buster in 1976, and who edited the Buster from then on .

Did Monster Fun/ Buster have any sub editors - too many questions maybe

Allen Cummings was at Fleetway/IPC/Fleetway/Egmont from 1963, so he may have been the editor of Buster in the 1970s too. I'm not sure. (I've lost touch with Allen. He was a great editor of the old school and we used to chat regularly when I was contributing to Buster.)

Bob Paynter was my first contact at IPC. As the group editor, he was the guy you'd see if you wanted to work in IPC humour comics. He turned down my first submissions in the early 1980s, and quite rightly too as I just wasn't good enough for IPC back then. However, he did give me a break on OINK! in 1984, as that was using newer, rawer talent. (The first Tom Thug strip was drawn in 1984 although Oink didn't get the green light until two years later. That first strip appeared in the free preview issue of Oink, which printed the dummy issue, given away with other IPC comics a week before OINK! launched properly.)

I'm sure Buster and Monster Fun would have had sub-editors, or assistant editors who did the subbing. Don't know who they were though, sorry. In its later years Buster was edited outside of Fleetway by Allen, at home, who had gone freelance (due to staff cutbacks). Allen handled everything himself then, but Jack Oliver did some freelance design work for it where needed.

Monster Fun (and other titles) were kept alive as Holiday Specials by Fleetway after their weekly comics folded because the specials had a longer shelf life and sold well. For the same reason that although Wham! and Pow! weeklies ended in 1968, the annuals continued into the early 1970s.

Lew

Muffy · Post by **Muffy** » 10 Sep 2007, 14:11

Thanks Lew for the info.

Monster Fun issue 57 was the first comic that my dad ever bought me, so that title has always been close to my heart - it's nice to find out more about the background too.

Still have the first preview issue of Oink as well.

Kashgar · Post by **Kashgar** » 10 Sep 2007, 14:24

Great review Lew. Certainly whetted the appetite for the trilogy as a whole.

Post by **AndyB** » 10 Sep 2007, 21:21

I just laughed. I have two Beryl the Peril books, and one of them has a three page feature "written" by Beryl and talking about how the artist was always worried (about his work) - just as Davy was.

I liked the way that Jimmy Crichton Korkys got mixed in amongst Dudley's stuff. Hmm.

Raven · Post by **Raven** » 10 Sep 2007, 22:26

I can't accept the idea that the IPC comics output was 'not inspiring.' Even Lew's review (which I enjoyed reading, of course, and thought was very good) while acknowledging that IPC's 70s output is too casually dismissed in the programme, says "Whilst it's true that much of the material in those comics was just fodder by Baxendale-style "ghost artists" " - but I remember the countless pages of outstanding work by artists like Reg Parlett, Ken Reid, Terry Bave, Brian Walker, Frank McDiarmid, Robert Nixon, Sid Burgon, Trevor Metcalfe and many more (as well as Mr. Baxendale himself), all of whom had very distinctive individual styles, being packed with zest and creativity, and reckon that IPC in the 70s was at least as inventive - regularly pushing the boundaries and possibilities of the weekly British comic - as D C Thomson had been in the 50s.

Otherwise it was a nice enough programme about the most innovative years of DCT, though.

Steve Bright · Post by **Steve Bright** » 10 Sep 2007, 23:19

Raven wrote:I can't accept the idea that the IPC comics output was 'not inspiring.' Even Lew's review (which I enjoyed reading, of course, and thought was very good) while acknowledging that IPC's 70s output is too casually dismissed in the programme, says "Whilst it's true that much of the material in those comics was just fodder by Baxendale-style "ghost artists" " - but I remember the countless pages of outstanding work by artists like Reg Parlett, Ken Reid, Terry Bave, Frank McDiarmid, Robert Nixon, Sid Burgon and many more, all of whom had very distinctive individual styles, being packed with zest and creativity, and reckon that IPC in the 70s was at least as inventive - regularly pushing the boundaries and possibilities of the weekly British comic - as D C Thomson had been in the 50s.

Quite so, Raven. Without wishing to argue with the comic genius label tagged to Leo Baxendale, I do sometimes cringe at just how much is laid at his feet, at the expense of the very talented writers who collaborated on every single one of his strips, and who never get the acknowledgement they thoroughly deserve.

Nor did the likes of David Sutherland, Ron Spencer, Bob McGrath and Jim Petrie, who for my money, at the very least equalled the creative input and output on the Baxendale-originated strips of Bash Street Kids, Little Plum, Three Bears and Minnie the Minx respectively. Their casual dismissal on the programme as 'inferior ghost artists' made me bloody angry.

Whilst Euan Kerr's caption labelling him as a "former Dandy editor" made me cringe.

philcom55 · Post by **philcom55** » 10 Sep 2007, 23:33

Yes! And even though I'm a huge Baxendale fan I'd have to say that anyone who can dismiss the brilliant Hunt Emerson as a second-rate copyist deserves to have his eyes examined!

- Phil Rushton

Peter Gray · Post by **Peter Gray** » 11 Sep 2007, 00:07

my recording went wrong....got up to the bit where it said Big Eggo is drawn by Dudley D Watkins

then it just stopped my video....Doh!

Have to record it at 2:50 in the morning...

Big Eggo is drawn by Dudley D Watkins - did Dudley ever ghost Reg Carter on one or two...

My websites I've done show that the 70's...80's...and 90's were still a very creative time....
J.Edward Oliver....Terry Bave.....Tom Paterson...Reg Parlett...Brian Walker...John Geering...Bill Ritchie...Mike Lacey...Steve Bright...Robert Nixon...Gordon Bell...David Sutherland......Sid B...Jim Petrie...Ian Knox...Trevor Metcalfe...Lew Stringer...Frank McD....etc...etc...you couild even add Jamie...Gary N...Les Pretend artist...there are so many after the 4 mentioned...go to Fleetway on Toonhound ....for all the rest...

I agree with Steve Bright...Minnie was super by Jim Petrie he really captured the energy and action....I like both artists equally on this strip..
David Sutherland is another top cartoonist making the Bash Street kids and Dennis the menace very popular...........hope one day these later artists will get there due respect as well.......on telly...

I think I would find it hard to meet Leo Baxendale...I suppose he sees the characters as his own and thinks no one can draw them like him...the characters are almost his children...he almost wished the characters ended there..in 1961

its a shame he couldn't see how well his children are looked after by these artists...hope one day he will relook at these comic artists that took over in a better clearer light...surely he must like Tom Patersons work...

Lew Stringer · Post by **Lew Stringer** » 11 Sep 2007, 00:23

Steve Bright wrote:
Raven wrote:I can't accept the idea that the IPC comics output was 'not inspiring.' Even Lew's review (which I enjoyed reading, of course, and thought was very good) while acknowledging that IPC's 70s output is too casually dismissed in the programme, says "Whilst it's true that much of the material in those comics was just fodder by Baxendale-style "ghost artists" " - but I remember the countless pages of outstanding work by artists like Reg Parlett, Ken Reid, Terry Bave, Frank McDiarmid, Robert Nixon, Sid Burgon and many more, all of whom had very distinctive individual styles, being packed with zest and creativity, and reckon that IPC in the 70s was at least as inventive - regularly pushing the boundaries and possibilities of the weekly British comic - as D C Thomson had been in the 50s.
Quite so, Raven. Without wishing to argue with the comic genius label tagged to Leo Baxendale, I do sometimes cringe at just how much is laid at his feet, at the expense of the very talented writers who collaborated on every single one of his strips, and who never get the acknowledgement they thoroughly deserve.

Nor did the likes of David Sutherland, Ron Spencer, Bob McGrath and Jim Petrie, who for my money, at the very least equalled the creative input and output on the Baxendale-originated strips of Bash Street Kids, Little Plum, Three Bears and Minnie the Minx respectively. Their casual dismissal on the programme as 'inferior ghost artists' made me bloody angry.

It's all personal opinion of course, although the programme did present it as unchallenged fact, perhaps in order to keep Baxendale on board?

Thing is, as I've said before, ask people what they think the "best" comics were and you'll almost always find out they were the comics of their childhood, which is what happened with the guests on Comics Britannia. I suspect that if they'd interviewed younger people then the comics of the 1970s would have figured more highly.

These documentaries only concentrate on the "movers and shakers" of the industry; the strips and comics that really made a difference and moved the medium forward. (Although the inclusion of Tank Girl in episode 3 is a bit dubious on that point. Was it really that popular outside of Camden?)

On the whole though, I think these shows will do us all some good by raising the profile of British comics. Just as long as people don't completely swallow the "humour comics aren't as good as they used to be" angle!

Lew

philcom55 · Post by **philcom55** » 11 Sep 2007, 00:45

Lew Stringer wrote:ask people what they think the "best" comics were and you'll almost always find out they were the comics of their childhood, which is what happened with the guests on Comics Britannia.

To be fair David Roach did state that he finds the humour comics from the 50s and 60s to be far better than the 70s titles that he grew up with. On the whole though I do tend to agree with the oft-repeated dictum that for most people the true 'Golden Age' of Comics is...'about 10' (or whatever!)

- Phil Rushton

Peter Gray · Post by **Peter Gray** » 11 Sep 2007, 11:01

Well I've finally watched it...erm with sign language m in the corner..have to record it on Wednesday night....

Really enjoyed it.....lovely to see the four artists getting there due at last on telly.....the program really should have been called the four comic artists rather than mention Fleetway or rush IPC...Oldham...and other artists

Love to have see more on these artists an hour is too short...left me wanting more..

The best bit of the program was showing how much of an impact these artists had in the 50's..anti establishment..battle against police...teachers...parents....etc...
Going through the eras of 30's..food..40's.war..rationing...racial..50's and 60's was great and something I never really thought about.........

Also the teacher was a great complex character not just a bully But below the Headmaster and you cared for him as well........
Seeing the 50's school against the Bash Street kids was so different no wonder kids lapped it up..the punishments were awful and unfair...so seeing your hero fighting back..was great.

wish I could buy more comics in this era to see more of the late 50's and early 60's...so expensive though..

Seeing the 60's Wham (far too short!) it showed the 60's in a comic...and the imact of horror in humour comics which was no where to be seen in the 60's Beano and Dandy was another good point..and the crazy characters that Leo and others created showed the freedom they had...got me very excited about Wham...shame Leo was a bit down about it..

Morris H the Dandy editor was also a bit down about the new artists coming in...glad Euan Kerr didn't join in...after the 4 artists there were still loads of good stuff from comic artists. Also Desperate Dan still eats Cow pie..

What we need now is a 60's, 70's and 80's telly program showing Nutty..Sparky..Whoopee..Buster..Oink..etc. in humour comics...

philcom55 · Post by **philcom55** » 11 Sep 2007, 11:22

Peter Gray wrote:Love to have see more on these artists an hour is too short...left me wanting more..

Yes. Ken Reid in particular would be a fascinating subject for a programme - or even a 'proper' biography. The desperate self-portraits shown last night were a revelation to me.

- Phil Rushton

chrissmillie · Post by **chrissmillie** » 11 Sep 2007, 13:45

Yeah, I did think Fleetway was passed over a bit quickly. The Beano and Dandy was distinctly dated when Whoopee and Krazy for instance came along.

Also agree with Lew about the general despondency regarding humour comics. Really the humour (along with the gentle nursery humour) are still the bedrock of British comics. The time for despondency is adventure comics (excusing Panini/Marvel UK). Now there's the real low. How I wish I had the cash to put out one for the newsagent (or find a way to get the webcomic more popular).

Overall, I really enjoyed the show. If that doesn't create an upsurge in comics, I don't know what will. Funny the way that a lot of kids now struggle to be able to read a comic.

Chris

Comics UK