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When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 01 Dec 2009, 00:04
by Phoenix
Some days ago I said I would read When The Comics Went To War and then post my comments about it. I can start by saying that all the favourable things I had to say about Football's Comic Book Heroes can be applied to Adam's second book. The presentation, the format, the writing style, the use of illustrations and the design of the pages are all excellent, not least because the two volumes are like a matching pair. From those points of view I would be proud to have written either or both myself. I do, nevertheless, think it fair to say that I would have been more careful both with the research and the quality control. Despite all that follows, I would still buy this book and recommend it to others.

For a start there are too many spelling mistakes. On page 42, in a description of the second illustration, the word fiece should be fierce, on page 48 treacherous is rendered as trecherous despite the fact that the word treachery is spelt correctly on page 72. On page 98 plausability should be plausibility. This is disappointing because the word is in a quotation. Adam quite properly acknowledges his source, but one should always quote accurately from sources. To do otherwise suggests a lack of respect. I have three versions of ES Turner's Boys Will Be Boys, the Michael Joseph first edition from 1948, the 1962 Daimon Press (Background Books) paperback and the Penguin that Adam used. In all instances, Turner's words are transcribed correctly. Kit Carson becomes Kim at one point on page 101, on page 118 the Wolf of Kabul is called Bill Sampson rather than the correct Samson, on page 132 cotttage has acquired an extra 't', tired on the first line of page 137 should be tried, a serious of trials on page 196 should be a series of trials, equivilent should be equivalent in the margin comment about the second picture on page 209, and on the following page seemigly should be seemingly.

There are other more general language issues. On page 21 there is an intrusive apostrophe in gallow's literature, which makes it look as if gallow owns the literature. It couldn't anyway because gallow does not exist. To be fair, as I have not read Lord Shaftesbury's speech, I am allowing for the possibility that the mistake is his. On page 37 the phrase the enemy would be able to fire would only make sense if it read the enemy would not be able to fire. I have sometimes seen the hyphenating of words like re-fuel and re-stock (page 78), re-invigorated (page 86) and re-appearance (page 105), but such a usage is pointless. The hyphen used this way is only important to distinguish between two words spelt identically but with completely different meanings, eg resign (from a job) and re-sign (for a football club on a further contract, or on returning to a club after a period playing for a different team). Also on page 78 is rendezvous. Adam is using this word as a verb, in which case it should be spelt rendezvouses. The reason this form is so rarely seen is that rendezvous (the 's' not being pronounced, as in French) is almost always used as a noun, so the phrase would be better rendered as for a rendezvous. In a marginal note on page 84 Sexton Blake is described as a phenomena, a plural noun. This should be the singular form phenomenon because Sexton Blake is singular, even though some of his adversaries might believe he is in several places at the same time. In a sentence that starts on page 133 and ends on 134, when talking about Battler Britton in Sun Weekly, we find the expression much aerial high-jinx, which contains three mistakes in four words. The hyphen is not used here, jinx should be jinks, which is plural therefore much should be many. On page 154 text-based story should either be text-based stories or the text-based story, on page 159 'to' is missing from they set out rescue, and on page 188 an historic day should be a historic day. In Lancashire and elsewhere people might say an 'istoric day, but the 'h' should be pronounced and therefore in print an is wrong. Finally, on page 204, in failing to protect a Zeppelin, protect should be prevent.

Turning to factual errors and other general carelessness. On page 10 Lion and Tiger are included in a group of comics said to have been introduced during the late 1950s and early 1960s. Lion launched in 1952, Tiger in 1954. On page 48 Champion of the Week should be Our Champion of the Week, clearly visible on the facing page, the statement on page 85 that The Dreadnought And War Pictorial dated 3 October 1914 was a Special War Supplement is misleading. It was actually just a normal 28-page issue but with pages 13 to 16 being called and presented as a supplement, which it obviously wasn't. On page 100 Whippets O' War!, an illustration of which appears at the top of the page, is referred to in the margin as The Whippets O' War (no exclamation mark either). The reference on the same page to Donald Dane as a veteran story paper writer is misleading because at that time he was only just beginning his career. According to Steve Holland's entry for him in his British Juvenile Story Papers and Pocket Libraries Index, Dane was born in 1902 and would therefore only be about 30 and had only written three stories for The Triumph before Whippets O' War! On page 107 The Secret Of The Hated Hunchback is said to run throughout 1939. It actually started in December 1937 and ran for 13 weeks to the end of February 1938. A similar error occurs on page 115 where The Yellow Ghost is said to run throughout 1943. It didn't even start till the end of May. On page 120 we are told that Raiders From The Depth started on 23 January 1943. Depth should have been Depths anyway but the serial actually began on 28 November 1942. The 23 January instalment was the fifth of six. On page 122, referring to They'll Try It Again!, the text states that it began on 27 March 1945, but the comment in the margin claims it was the 26th. It actually started on the 24th. Also on page 122 it is claimed that war stories continued for the following five decades. In DC Thomsons' defence I would like to point out that there were no textual war stories after 1945 until The Phantom Flyer in August 1950. The mammoth Squadron X was the precursor of the great Matt Braddock sagas that started in 1952, 12 serials and 2 repeats before the launch of The Victor. Not that you would notice from Adam's chapter on the Fifties where Matt doesn't even get a mention! What we might call Adam's 'Cannonball Kidd moment' occurs when he claims on page 168 that The Yellow Sword in The Hotspur (The Hornet according to page 170) in 1968/69 was originally called Will O' The Whistle. The latter certainly appeared in The Wizard in 1957/58, and was set in 1993, but it recounted the second invasion by the Kushanti, and much of the drama was played out in Wales. It was repeated with some modifications with the same title in The Victor early in 1973 but the story in The Hotspur was essentially a repeat of The Yellow Sword from The Wizard in 1955/56, which told of the original futuristic 1968 invasion and the resistance led by John Maitland.

On a couple of occasions Adam missed the opportunity to refer back to points already made. On page 136, when dealing with boxing airman Rockfist Rogan, he could have linked him with Dan Dare on page 92 from The Boys' Realm Of Sport And Adventure, and similarly, on page 171, when linking Danger Island with The Naval Castaways in Lion in 1952, he could have redirected the reader to his reference on page 130. There are other points I could raise but the above will have to do.

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 01 Dec 2009, 20:57
by Phoenix
These pictures relate to the post above. The first is the cover of the issue of The Dreadnought And War Pictorial for October 3rd 1914 that Adam refers to on page 85 and the second is page 13 of that same issue, that being the first page of the so-called supplement. The final illustration is the cover of issue 137 of The Dreadnought from January 9th 1915, the second issue after it reverted from the earlier title mentioned above, again as mentioned by Adam.

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 01 Dec 2009, 21:03
by ISPYSHHHGUY
DREADNOUGHT is a brilliant name for a comic-paper and still sounds 'contemporary' today.

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 01 Dec 2009, 22:07
by philcom55
ISPYSHHHGUY wrote:DREADNOUGHT is a brilliant name for a comic-paper
I agree: an absolutely fantastic name from a time when warfare was still thought of as an imperial adventure. People forget that in the days leading up to the First World War Dreadnoughts and Super-Dreadnoughts were the ne plus ultra of military power - virtually the equivalent of today's nuclear weapons. Then of course there were the Land Dreadnoughts...

...Somehow it all seems so much more than a hundred years ago! :roll:

- Phil Rushton

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 01 Dec 2009, 22:18
by ISPYSHHHGUY
In fact, the title wouldn't sound out of place in a '2ooo AD offshoot, Phil, ie:


'DREDDNOUGHT'.

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 01 Dec 2009, 22:23
by philcom55
...Somebody really ought to suggest that to John Wagner! :D

- Phil R.

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 05 Dec 2009, 22:47
by felneymike
Dreadnought was certianly one of my more favourite titles, i first came across it on the Sexton Blake website. I especially love the propaganda-packed wartime issues, though it didn't really last very long (1913-1915 i beleive). I own a few issues in a bound volume but they aren't consecutive, just thrown in together in and bad condition. I also have one single later issue which is in great condition, and is a bit bigger than the earlier issues and doesn't have a blue cover. However all the stories in it were serials so i can't read them until i find the "missing" issues!

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 11 Dec 2009, 15:07
by Rogerhat
Thank Phoenix, for your review and comments on When the Comics Went
to War. You've certainly given it a good read through! just a couple
of points I'd like to raise... I know Adam is upset that the
publishers' proof readers did not pick up some of the 'silly' errors
such as typos, spelling errors, etc. Remember, Adam writes it and
while I'm sure he would have re-read his words I know from personal
experience that it's very hard to proof read your own copy (which is
why publishers employ proof readers!).

The other factor – and I don't want to come over as 'poor me' – but
this was an extremely time-pressured project. the book was written
and designed in less than 12 weeks (apart from some initial research)
and printed within a fortnight of us finishing the pages.
Anyway, I sincerely hope that Comics UK readers do enjoy the book –
we've certainly learnt an awful lot from producing this and
Football's Comic Book Heroes

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 11 Dec 2009, 21:36
by Phoenix
Rogerhat wrote:Thank Phoenix, for your review and comments on When the Comics Went
to War. You've certainly given it a good read through! just a couple
of points I'd like to raise... I know Adam is upset that the
publishers' proof readers did not pick up some of the 'silly' errors
such as typos, spelling errors, etc. Remember, Adam writes it and
while I'm sure he would have re-read his words I know from personal
experience that it's very hard to proof read your own copy (which is
why publishers employ proof readers!).

The other factor – and I don't want to come over as 'poor me' – but
this was an extremely time-pressured project. the book was written
and designed in less than 12 weeks (apart from some initial research)
and printed within a fortnight of us finishing the pages.
Anyway, I sincerely hope that Comics UK readers do enjoy the book –
we've certainly learnt an awful lot from producing this and
Football's Comic Book Heroes
Thank you for getting back to me, Tim, I do appreciate it. I would actually like to assure the three of you that I do not consider your books to have been spoiled by the errors that I picked up on. I genuinely believe them to be really good books, which I certainly enjoyed reading, and from which I learned a great deal, particularly about the pre-Thomson period where my collection tends to thin out quite significantly. So, given the severe pressure you were under to deliver, in both instances, you can be proud of the end product. Have you had any indication yet from the publishers about your third book? I don't suppose you feel like giving the forum members an early hint about its theme!!! If it is to follow your established pattern, it could be on detectives, schools, possibly the Wild West, but I think I'd put my money on sci-fi and fantasy. That would be a rich seam to mine and excavate.

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 12 Dec 2009, 01:33
by VictorHornet
I too enjoyed this book and the Football's Comic Book Heroes volume. Especially the collection of picture and text story examples at the back of the book.

Unfortunately, like Phoenix I too found some mistakes regarding some of the information about the Victor and Hornet strips mentioned.

Easily done when your dealing with a lot of information. (And I include my own website in this http://www.victorhornetcomics.co.uk Although, I hope there aren't too many mistakes on my site).

To read my positive review please visit http://www.victorhornetcomics.co.uk/boo ... 12-09.html

Thank you.

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 14 Dec 2009, 12:58
by Rogerhat
I think the overall response from the forum has been very encouraging, and we are very grateful for the positive feedback. We understand that anyone who reads the book has a right to post an opinion and we have to accept it and take the rough with the smooth.
It’s been a very frustrating process, from proof readers missing mistakes to friends wanting free copies of the books in exchange for them writing reviews on Amazon – which don’t materialize!

With regards to future projects, the limited editions of both books should be out soon (if not already), and we have produced some greetings cards from the football book (see www.armstrongmedia.co.uk, we have plans to expand the range and have some Christmas covers out next Autumn.

With regards another book we have to see how well these two do before the publishers commit, hopefully they will early in the new year. At the moment, if we get the go ahead, it’s likely to be science fiction. I’ve already got some great Champion and Skipper covers and I’m keeping an eye out on Ebay for anything else!

Here's a link to a local paper story (http://www.yellowad.co.uk/tn/news.cfm?i ... k%20heroes), if anyone sees me rummaging through boxes at comic fairs say hello

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 14 Dec 2009, 14:53
by Phoenix
Phoenix wrote:I'd put my money on sci-fi and fantasy.
Rogerhat wrote:With regards another book if we get the go ahead, it’s likely to be science fiction.
As regards the prize for prediction, Tim, could you please put me down for a Cast-Iron Bill T-shirt, XL to fit immediately, or L to give me an incentive to shed a few pounds. :D

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 14 Dec 2009, 16:30
by Rogerhat
I made myself a couple of t shirts when I was working on the football book, and reproductions of the first Beano and Dandy annuals (which I don't think were ever published). I looked into producing them to sell, but it's an expensive business and I know nothing about the rag trade, so decided against it. If anyone on the forum has had any success in with producing t shirts I'd be very interested to hear from them.

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 18 Dec 2009, 21:33
by felneymike
You can sling some designs up on cafepress.com for nothing, loads of webcomic authors do (or did, i even planned to years ago when i made a comic called, not surprisingly, Felney).

Actually if the designs are from copyrighted covers/characters then there's probably various wrangling involved as to getting permission.

Re: When The Comics Went To War

Posted: 27 Dec 2009, 17:52
by Rogerhat
Does anyone have any idea how we find out the sales figures for our two books? The only info I have is the ranking on Amazon

tim