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The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 01:40
by Kid Robson
Ken Reid was an artistic genius, sure enough. When one looks at his Frankie Stein, Jonah, and Queen of the Seas strips (amongst others), they're full of vitality, motion, and carefully constructed panels. However, later in his career, although the finely detailed penmanship remained, his figures looked stiff and stilted, his panels awkwardly composed and, overall, seemed a pale shadow of his earlier work. To such an extent, in fact, that some have wondered if his pages were laid out by less-accomplished hands, which Ken then finished in his inimitable inking style. Anyone got any views on this?
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 06:47
by George Shiers
Whereas his earlier style in Smash and Wham was absolutely fantastic I think his later Faceache strips were also brilliant. His later pages are an awful lot calmer than his earlier ones (this could be because editors started to notice what he was hiding in the background, and instructed him not to

), but I think this calmer Ken suited Buster very well. Buster was aimed at a different, perhaps slightly younger audience than the Power comics mentioned above, and his style evolved to suit that.
He definitely did not decline, as you say in the title.
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 11:06
by Kid Robson
George Shiers wrote:Whereas his earlier style in Smash and Wham was absolutely fantastic I think his later Faceache strips were also brilliant. His later pages are an awful lot calmer than his earlier ones (this could be because editors started to notice what he was hiding in the background, and instructed him not to

), but I think this calmer Ken suited Buster very well. Buster was aimed at a different, perhaps slightly younger audience than the Power comics mentioned above, and his style evolved to suit that.
He definitely did not decline, as you say in the title.
I'd have to differ, George. The first panel in his last Faceache strip is a telling example. The kids are sitting at an awkward angle to their desks. The fluidity of his earlier strips is entirely absent. It's the same inking style, but the magic has gone.
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 11:36
by Raven
I don't quite agree, either. I don't think it would have been possible for Reid to continue in the heavily detailed, hyper style of his '60s work, fifty two weeks a years, for decades; it's a very taxing business and you can only keep that up for a certain amount of time, and Reid did start to suffer quite seriously, at one point, didn't he? Similar happened with Leo Baxendale who had to employ a looser, more shorthand style as a survival mechanism, but making that work for him, creating an energetic, cartoony new look for comic strips.
That kind of frenzied vitality Reid is known for also wasn't suitable for all strips, anyway, and he'd often done relatively calmer strips, too; people often forget his football comic strips, for example. I think his Martha's Monster Make-Up in Monster Fun, for example, is as good as anything he's done, and was perhaps more child reader-friendly than some earlier work; same for much of Faceache.
So I think his style changed as comics changed (they certainly grew tamer in the '80s as ideas about what was appropriate for children seemed to change), and because it would have been impossible to continue at that hyper pitch indefinitely, but the stories were just as well told, and not always especially toned down in terms of his outlandish/ 'grotesque' elements.
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 12:50
by Kid Robson
Raven wrote:I don't quite agree, either. I don't think it would have been possible for Reid to continue in the heavily detailed, hyper style of his '60s work, fifty two weeks a years, for decades; it's a very taxing business and you can only keep that up for a certain amount of time, and Reid did start to suffer quite seriously, at one point, didn't he? Similar happened with Leo Baxendale who had to employ a looser, more shorthand style as a survival mechanism, but making that work for him, creating an energetic, cartoony new look for comic strips.
That kind of frenzied vitality Reid is known for also wasn't suitable for all strips, anyway, and he'd had often done relatively calmer strips, too; people often forget his football comic strips, for example. I think his Martha's Monster Make-Up in Monster Fun, for example, is as good as anything he's done, and was perhaps more child reader-friendly than some earlier work; same for much of Faceache.
So I think his style changed as comics changed (they certainly grew tamer in the '80s as ideas about what was appropriate for children seemed to change), and because it would have been impossible to continue at that hyper pitch indefinitely, but the stories were just as well told, and not always especially toned down in terms of his outlandish/ 'grotesque' elements.
I believe Reid had some sort of breakdown at some stage of his career, which rendered him unable to draw anything at all for a while, so perhaps that had something to do with it. However, even allowing for a calmer, quieter style (whether as a result of editorial direction or not), his later pages in the latter part of his career just seemed repetitive in posturing of characters and rather pedestrian in composition of panels. All very neatly dileanated, yes - but rather boring and perfunctory to my eyes. Those pages certainly can't be described as bad, per se - they just weren't as good as his earlier stuff. Still one of the greats 'though.
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 12:53
by Stingray
I also tend to agree with George and Raven and don't really see any decline in his ability, other than him adapting to maintain a reasonable well-being and still hit deadlines - which would have been a major factor in how much effort/time was put into each page. His hand would have exploded trying to maintain 15 panels of detailed comic inventiveness per page year in year out. Actually, I think 'decline' might the wrong choice of word - maybe 'evolution' is better suited? So for instance his moving toward the simpler layout of the 'front, 3/4, profile - repeat' style of Face Ache worked for me and meant he was able to get through the pages whilst keeping them entertaining and still leaving enough time to sleep. But, even with this simpler composition style he was, as you mention, still drawing like a son of a gun! Awesome. If I'm drawing as good as that when I'm almost 70 I'll be crackin' open the bubbly.

Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 13:06
by philcom55
I think the decline in Ken's strips can be dated to that point in the 1970s when IPC stopped him from writing his own scripts and 'banned' the more gruesome style he'd employed on
Wham!,
Pow! and
Smash! From then on it's clear that he didn't have the same personal investment in the stories - though the continuing brilliance of his back cover illustrations for World-Wide Weirdies, etc. showed that he was still capable of great things.
Incidentally Kid, if you haven't already come across it this old thread included some interesting examples of earlier work produced during what might be thought of as 'The Rise of Ken Reid':
http://comicsuk.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=5017
- Phil Rushton
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 13:19
by Raven
philcom55 wrote:I think the decline in Ken's strips can be dated to that point in the 1970s when IPC stopped him from writing his own scripts and 'banned' the more gruesome style he'd employed on Wham!, Pow! and Smash!
Did Ken write his own scripts, Phil? Weren't his Wham-era strips scripted by Walter Thorburn?
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 13:24
by philcom55
A few may have been but most of the file copies I've seen show Ken being paid for art and script. I think the chance to write his own work (and be paid for it) was one of the main things that attracted him to Odhams in the first place. He had, of course, always written his Fudge strips.
- Phil R.
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 13:27
by Raven
philcom55 wrote:A few may have been but most of the file copies I've seen show Ken being paid for art and script.
- Phil R.
Oh, that's interesting - and that's impeccable source material!
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 13:35
by Peter Gray
He stopped writing Faceache in 1982 when Jackpot joined Buster..
I also think Faceache still was a good strip in the 80's..and still had some gruesome scrunges..
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 23:50
by Kid Robson
philcom55 wrote:A few may have been but most of the file copies I've seen show Ken being paid for art and script. I think the chance to write his own work (and be paid for it) was one of the main things that attracted him to Odhams in the first place. He had, of course, always written his Fudge strips.
- Phil R.
And even when other writers wrote the scripts, Ken added quite a lot to them. I've seen notes in the margins of some original Frankie art saying something like: 'Script - W Thorburn, revisions and additions - Ken Reid'.
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 11 Aug 2013, 23:59
by Kid Robson
philcom55 wrote:I think the decline in Ken's strips can be dated to that point in the 1970s when IPC stopped him from writing his own scripts and 'banned' the more gruesome style he'd employed on
Wham!,
Pow! and
Smash! From then on it's clear that he didn't have the same personal investment in the stories - though the continuing brilliance of his back cover illustrations for World-Wide Weirdies, etc. showed that he was still capable of great things.
Incidentally Kid, if you haven't already come across it this old thread included some interesting examples of earlier work produced during what might be thought of as 'The Rise of Ken Reid':
http://comicsuk.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=127&t=5017
- Phil Rushton
Thanks for that link, Phil. Enjoyed that.
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 12 Aug 2013, 14:50
by Mr McScotty
I think some of Ken Reid's Faceache sets in the Buster in the mid - late 70s were really good and on par with some (not all) of his 60s work at Odhams -- but there is no doubt that whilst he was still a great artist right to the very end some of his Faceache (and "Martha" and "Tom Horrors" ) sets in the 80s were starting to look a bit "stiff" and as a result (imho) a bit dated - and a lot (not all) of his latter sets consisted of a too many head (profile) shots - but even then he managed to get a few panels in that made your jaw drop. I think I also read somewhere that Ken got so fed up with being edited (an editor stating" Ken Reid was a comic book genius but we spent hours searching each panel to white out dog poo..." ok I paraphrase but it was long those lines) that he decided to play it safe and give editors what they wanted -also as you noted I think Ken did have a "breakdown" and was getting on a bit (although sadly Ken was only 68 when he passed away which is not really that old) still what a guy for me the best ever kids cartoonist (with Leo Baxendale)
Re: The decline of Ken Reid
Posted: 12 Aug 2013, 15:20
by Raven
Mr McScotty wrote:I think some of Ken Reid's Faceache sets in the Buster in the mid - late 70s were really good and on par with some (not all) of his 60s work at Odhams -- but there is no doubt that whilst he was still a great artist right to the very end some of his Faceache (and "Martha" and "Tom Horrors" ) sets in the 80s were starting to look a bit "stiff" and as a result (imho) a bit dated - and a lot (not all) of his latter sets consisted of a too many head (profile) shots - but even then he managed to get a few panels in that made your jaw drop.
Don't you think, though, that he'd always had a kind of - I'm sure I'm not describing this well, but - very studied, detailed look to his art, and a heavy emphasis on "profile shots" that went back to his late '50s Jonahs - which gave his artwork a certain "stiff" look in comparison to the more fluid, loose, kinetic, cartoony styles you saw in the '70s comics, from Terry Bave, Robert Nixon, Reg Parlett, Mike Lacey and co.
This isn't to disparage it in any way - he was one of the best artists - but in the same way that Dudley Watkins's art, despite its skill, was rendered rather old fashioned-looking when Davey Law and Leo Baxendale came along. I do remember when Reid's Wham reprints were placed alongside Robert Nixon's modern incarnation in Frankie Stein specials, as a boy, finding them very "old fashioned" and rather "stiff"-feeling; I appreciate them much more as an adult.
It was one of the things I always found so interesting about his pages, which always looked so different from all the others.