comics on c-d rom

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

Whoever is making these dvd-rom copies must be spending an awful long time scanning copies , and their electricity bills must be astronomical, so I can't envisage much actual profit, if any-----unless of course, they have wangled free electricity as well......

[starscape]

One of the main gripes against the CDs is that they're selling copies of other peoples scans who have put them out for free for the sake of posterity.

Whilst publishers see no value in old Rover, Lion or whatever comics*, plus refuse to let anyone else gain a license (Egmont is a little different), it's a victimless crime. With no interest in publishing or leasing this material**, it doesn't damage their profits at all. In fact, it's absolutely shameful they care so little. At least allow a cheap license to fan groups if you don't care. Current comics are a different matter entirely.

*for the record, I've tried licensing Adam Eterno, Valiant stories, Grant Morrison's Starblazer, 2000ADs Dan Dare and collected Billy the Cat material - others have also tried with such companies with the same success (IPC and Dan Dare Co since changes to licensing operations that made it impossible)

**and then there's the whole issue of who actually owns older comics - creators or company - it's a valid dispute but how many times can you have this argument? Especially since neither side cares much about reprinting.

[Phoenix]

I'm no lawyer but I'd guess that a technical case could be made against reselling any comics to a second party.

Wow, Phil. At a stroke you have delivered the technical coup de grace to the world's secondhand book and comic shops, a sizeable portion of the antique trade and much of eBay. May I suggest that you get yourself out to a local hostelry this afternoon, on your own, have a couple of leisurely pints and recover your normal poise.

[Raven]

In reality, though, selling things secondhand isn't illegal in any way.

[Tin Can Tommy]

I dont like the idea of people profiting from piracy. Although there are some ocassions when I feel piracy, but not profiting from it, is acceptable.

This is an interesting point you are making, Tin Can. However, could you please outline for us some examples of when exactly you feel that piracy is acceptable.

I feel piracy is acceptable if it is the only possible way you could obtain a copy of something. For example a documentary you desperately want to watch and which appears as though it is never going to be available on DVD for you to purchase and is also never repeated on television and can not be obtained from another route. Then I would see piracy as an acceptable course of action.

[Raven]

But how can you say for sure that it's never going to be out on DVD? Looking at the obscure old things that have been released over the last few weeks alone on DVD, I'm not sure there's much you could definitively say that about.

[Tin Can Tommy]

But how can you say for sure that it's never going to be out on DVD? Looking at the obscure old things that have been released over the last few weeks alone on DVD, I'm not sure there's much you could definitively say that about.

Thats exactly what I was thinking about when writing my post. Ultimately you can never be sure. You just have to use your judgement or you could balance out your karma by buying anything you pirated on DVD as soon as it becomes available.

[swirlythingy]

I'm no lawyer but I'd guess that a technical case could be made against reselling any comics to a second party.

Wow, Phil. At a stroke you have delivered the technical coup de grace to the world's secondhand book and comic shops, a sizeable portion of the antique trade and much of eBay. May I suggest that you get yourself out to a local hostelry this afternoon, on your own, have a couple of leisurely pints and recover your normal poise.

He's right, though, in that technically, a dealer selling second-hand paper copies of Warlord with no compensation to the publisher is in almost exactly the same position as someone selling digitised copies of the same publication. Why must it be treated differently in law just because of the medium on which it is carried?

I appreciate there is a case that print runs are limited, whereas digital files can be copied infinitely and so are never really 'second-hand', but in the case of 40 years out-of-print comics which the rightful owners have zero interest in making available, the difference between the two methods of operation is questionable - one is simply felt to be more 'acceptable' because of societal inertia.

I usually have quite a lot to say about this topic and copyright issues in general, but seeing as this thread has already violated Godwin's Law, it's probably best if I severely limit myself.

[philcom55]

To quote the 'Conditions of Sale and Supply' printed in every copy of Wham!

"This periodical is sold subject to the following conditions, namely, that it shall not, without written consent of the publishers first given, be lent, re-sold, hired out or otherwise disposed of by way of Trade except at the full retail price of 6d., and that it shall not be lent, re-sold, hired out, or otherwise disposed of in a mutilated condition or in any unauthorised cover by way of Trade; or affixed to or as part of any publication or advertising, literary or pictorial matter whatsoever."

...Ah yes, I can still remember the extreme care with which we used to hide our illicit swaps back in the 1960s - constantly ensuring that the guardtowers and playground patrols were otherwise occupied before we did the dirty deed!

- Phil Rushton

[paw broon]

How do collectors and students of the genre find, store and pay for original paper copies?

Being both a collector and a student of the genre, Paw, I feel qualified to respond to your question. I find the paper copies on eBay or at antique fairs, I pay for them with money, and I store them in one of a number of empty spaces somewhere appropriate in my house.

And of, course, immediately violate the conditions of sale and supply. But I take your point, with the caveat that a lot of stuff just isn't available, especially in Scotland. As for ebay, well, that's the very site that fails to enforce its own rules and ignores blatant breaches of copyright laws. There is still the problem of space and, while you and others might still have space available for piles of new acquisitions, some of us do not. So, electronic or disc versions? I also have noted recently, from posts on other sites, that folk who were wary of buying e-versions of new comics, are moving into subscribing and reading on tablets, etc. and, while in my opinion, nothing beats a paper copy, this movement can only gather pace. Given all that's been said above, and I speak as a collector and student of comics in general, is there perhaps a need for pirated, old material?

[starscape]

Would people prefer to buy an individual Buster/Battle etc on pdf/cbz week by week or the whole collection at once on disc?

[Lew Stringer]

I feel piracy is acceptable if it is the only possible way you could obtain a copy of something. For example a documentary you desperately want to watch and which appears as though it is never going to be available on DVD for you to purchase and is also never repeated on television and can not be obtained from another route. Then I would see piracy as an acceptable course of action.

Unfortunately wanting something isn't justification for copyright theft in the eyes of the law.

Sadly we do live in an age where a sense of entitlement seems to rule. Yes, it's frustrating that publishers don't seem interested in putting out their own DVDs, but when people expect something for nothing what's the point in them developing such an idea? That's the big problem, that the Internet has created an expectation of free goods.

[PaulTwist]

Someone I follow on Twitter recently stated that their opinion on pirated material was that they'd pirate it if it's not commercially available, but once it was they'd buy it right away. I think this is a fair compromise. (Though they were talking about archive TV series, not comics.)

It's a tough one. For example, I do have a pirate copies of The Pall Bearer's Revue, a never-repeated, never-commecially released Jerry Sadowitz series. The only way I could've seen it was to download it illegally. It infringes the BBC's copyright, but who does it hurt?

Comics I do feel differently about. Whether that's because I don't like to read comics on a screen or because they're niche compared to TV I don't know, but I have never pirated comics and probably never will.

[Digifiend]

I understand there used to be (or perhaps still is) an online group that even offered downloads of the latest Dandy, Beano,etc. Anyone with the sense of entitlement to download new issues is sticking the boot in to what comics industry we have left. And when it's all gone they'll point the finger anywhere but home.

If you mean the Beano Project, the majority of stuff there is old. Nothing newer then a 90s Beano Superstars uploaded recently.

[philcom55]

I don't think it's easy to come up with a single, all-inclusive position on electronically bootlegged comics.

For example, I acquired a complete collection of DC's Rex the Wonder Dog on disc from an unlicensed dealer as this material isn't currently available in any other reprinted form - but that wouldn't stop me from buying a 'Showcase Presents' edition if it's ever published. Bearing in mind that the only people likely to be interested in such material are fellow '50/60-somethings' who feel pretty much the same way I can't see that DC Comics need to worry too much. In fact the easy availability of most of their Gold and Silver Age comics on disc doesn't seem to have damaged the currently booming US market for archive editions at all.

By contrast, it's hard to blame the lack of British archive editions on these CDs as, to date, very few of them have featured UK material. The real problem seems to be that the total British population of comic readers in the relevant age range is about one-fifth of their American equivalent, and therefore too small to make such ventures commercially viable.

Also, it's worth noting that one of the very best British comic-strip reprints of recent years, Peter Richardson's excellent 'Complete Wulf the Briton' (soon to be followed by his edition of 'Frank Bellamy's Heros the Spartan') actually gained its initial impetus from the interest generated when Peter made the first year or so available for free on his website.

Personally, in spite of their convenience, I can't imagine comics on CD will ever replace the printed versions in my affections. Unfortunately, that doesn't stop me from thinking the time is fast approaching when I'll be in an ever-decreasing minority.

- Phil R.