Retro TV

[big bad bri]

I have just watched the complete series of Prospects on dvd from c4 1986 does that count as retro it was ok not as good as i remember,Now Hurry up BBC or network or anyone & release the rest of Grange hill on dvd & maybe Sky 1's Dream Team.

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

Having turned my back on modern TV [seemingly permanently], I nevertheless am building up an OK collection of vintage UK/USA TV on dvd box-sets, due to the dirt-cheap prices nowadays.


I watch an eternal time-warp of BENNY HILL/On the Buses/ Steptoe and Son to name but a few: however as prices fall I now seek out more obscure items, which I aim to review on here.


First up:

CURRY and CHIPS, LWT, 1969, six episodes only


A bit of a hot potato, this one, the bulk of the dialogue I dare not even recount on here. Spike Milligan plays an Irish Pakistani working in a joke novelty factory called Lillicraps', and almost all the characters [including black actors like Kenny Lynch] spout a barrage of racism and sexism, although ironically this show [which I remember very vaguely] was criticized more for the 'bad language' in the days that Mary Whitehouse used to sit and count the excursions.


Sanity is represented by the novelty factory foreman played by Eric Sykes, who quite remarkably---and admirably----refused to swear at all on TV.


Is this show offensive, then? Not especially, to me it reflects the ignorance of many real-life people, especially 45 years ago, like writer Speights' other character, Alf Garnett.



I've only watched the opening episode, so I can't give a fair rating, but I intend watching the whole shebang,

[dandy mad]

I've watched this series many years ago on VHS and it is racist but wasn't made to be an out and out racist show it was made to show the prejudice of the great British public and the bigoted views of people who probably laughed along with the racism and not realized it was them the audience who the joke was on

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

yes, very like Alf Garnett, many real-life racists agreed with his views when discussing Til Death .......down the pub.

When does a satirical show start to be seen as deliberately provocative?


Often a very blurred line as drawn, and some folks can't see the intent of the shows' makers.


Curry and Chips has one of the worst reputations of any sitcom ever, however what little I have seen of todays' comedy just reflects falling standards, full stop.

[dandy mad]

Love Thy Neighbor was just as bad IMHO It Ain't Half Hot Mum Rising Damp Porridge all had a more subversive racism in their scripts and are still shown on TV to this day

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

I love the fact that Michael Bates [who played the blacked-up turban-wearing fakir addressing the audience directly] in 'It Ain't Half Hot' was actually born in India and was more than happy to play this part of a native of his country of origin!

[dandy mad]

The BBC say they'll never show it again on its channels because of Bates blacking up but yet they'll let the cable/satellite channel GOLD show it over and over again double standards eh...

[colcool007]

I recently watched Love Thy Neighbour and still find it progressive as it constantly portrayed Bill Reynolds as a modern British citizen who wants to move up the social ladder.

While it may have been considered Conservative propaganda at the time, the main message that shone through was that the Reynolds were just as much part of Britain as you or I were at the time.

I found that many Black and Asian roles from my formative years were a positive influence upon me as I despise the KKK, BNP and EDL today from watching those actors portray those roles so well back then.

[Lew Stringer]

I recently watched Love Thy Neighbour and still find it progressive as it constantly portrayed Bill Reynolds as a modern British citizen who wants to move up the social ladder.

While it may have been considered Conservative propaganda at the time, the main message that shone through was that the Reynolds were just as much part of Britain as you or I were at the time.

I found that many Black and Asian roles from my formative years were a positive influence upon me as I despise the KKK, BNP and EDL today from watching those actors portray those roles so well back then.

Likewise, and hopefully many others gained the same positive attitudes from it. Unfortunately it did introduce several racist phrases into widespread use, and into the school playground at the time, which wasn't a good thing. (I'll censor it for use here but I'd never heard of the phrase 'n-- n--' until Love Thy Neighbour. Then all the black kids - and Indian kids - at school were being called it the next day, causing a lot of upset as I remember.) And because the comedy was based on rivalry it played to the 'us vs them' attitudes. Even though the character's wives were usually shown to be best friends, it was the racist banter between the two male leads that people watched it for.

The problem with programmes like that (and 'Til Death Us Do Part) is that they preach to the converted mostly. I wish I had a pound for every idiot I've heard say "Alf Garnett was right". Even Warren Mitchell was dismayed that a lot of people didn't get that Alf was intended to be laughed at, not with.)

[ISPYSHHHGUY]

I still think Alf Garnett is one of the very funniest UK TV comic creations ever, and yes, some viewers sadly identified with his intolerant views on life, missing the point entirely.

Watching him as a kid, I just thought he was a bellowing nutter, very amusing to watch nevertheless, I just never really knew what to make of him, other than he was a real one-off TV character-----later on, in the 80s, when he reprised the character in 'In Sickness and in Health' I finally cottened on to the fact he was meant to be seen as a fool and loser.


Here's the detail regarding Michael Bates, who took a lot of criticism for 'blacking up' in 'It Ain't Half Hot': many detractors observed that at the very least, a real Indian actor should have taken the role on.

Bates wryly observed:


he was born in Janshi, India; he learned to speak Hindustani before learning English, ---and that as the only two genuinely brown faces on the show belonged to a Pakastani and a Bangladeshi, Bates was the only real Indian in the entire production!

Fantastic after-dinner allegory, that one.





Regarding 'Love Thy Neighbour', it still leaves something of a bad taste in the mouth, although it was very popular at the time-----however it would have been even worse if the Eddie Booth character came up trumps at the storys' conclusion.

[stevezodiac]

I was going through some VHS tapes a while back and came across an episode of Bewitched - the most inoffensive show on earth. The Stevens's daughter Tabitha had made friends with a black girl and told classmates they were sisters but their classmates said that was impossible because of their different coloured skins. Tabitha then used her witchcraft to make her black friend white. It was the same actress but with white make-up. Then when that backfired Tabitha made herself Black (and she was made up with black make-up). Later on a businessman, hoping to do a deal with her dad Darren, came to the door but when it was answered by a little black girl he assumed it was a mixed marriage, made his excuses and left. Later at a dinner party Tabitha's parents Samantha and Darren, having heard about the slight, came downstairs both made up as black people. The businessman, realising the error of his ways asked for forgiveness and Darren and Samantha both reappeared as white people. Looking at the show now it seems rather alarming but, back in the sixties, it was a genuine attempt by the shows makers to fight racial prejudice. If you google "Bewitched Sisters at Heart" and choose images there are some stills from the episode.

The Challenge channel shows reruns of Stars In Their Eyes and there are some white contestants who come on as black singers - made up to look the part. That would not be allowed now.

[Lew Stringer]

I was going through some VHS tapes a while back and came across an episode of Bewitched - the most inoffensive show on earth. The Stevens's daughter Tabitha had made friends with a black girl and told classmates they were sisters but their classmates said that was impossible because of their different coloured skins. Tabitha then used her witchcraft to make her black friend white. It was the same actress but with white make-up. Then when that backfired Tabitha made herself Black (and she was made up with black make-up). Later on a businessman, hoping to do a deal with her dad Darren, came to the door but when it was answered by a little black girl he assumed it was a mixed marriage, made his excuses and left. Later at a dinner party Tabitha's parents Samantha and Darren, having heard about the slight, came downstairs both made up as black people. The businessman, realising the error of his ways asked for forgiveness and Darren and Samantha both reappeared as white people. Looking at the show now it seems rather alarming but, back in the sixties, it was a genuine attempt by the shows makers to fight racial prejudice. If you google "Bewitched Sisters at Heart" and choose images there are some stills from the episode.

The Challenge channel shows reruns of Stars In Their Eyes and there are some white contestants who come on as black singers - made up to look the part. That would not be allowed now.

I used to enjoy the Black and White Minstrel Show as a kid, for the songs (and the female dancers) more than anything else. It was just another variety show to me. Although as a white kid I obviously wasn't affected as much as black viewers would be. Seeing singers in blackface make up didn't turn me into a racist, but it was insensitive to a proportion of the population. It's quite surprising they ran the programme until as late as 1978. I miss TV variety shows but I wouldn't want to see that one return.

[dandy mad]

It must have been repeated after 1978 as I remember being forced to watch it when I was around 5 or 6 1982/3 as it was on at the same time as The A-Team which at the time was my favourite show well that and the Professionals and watching them singing and dancing about was sheer torture maybe that's why I can't stand musicals to this day?...

[colcool007]

I must admit that when I was younger I never saw the funny side of Alf Garnett and just saw him as a loudmouth Londoner. When I got older, I sort of saw the humour, but could never find it outstanding as I knew that many people thought that his views were reasonable.

The thing I found funniest about Love Thy Neighbour was the scene from the George and Mildred movie where they argued over chess about which side was best to play. It was good to see Jack Smethurst arguing that black was best and Rudolph Walker arguing the other side showing that they understood how their characters were shaped. And it was good that the bigot always got his come-uppance in the TV show.

I also enjoyed the Black & White Minstrel show as I enjoyed variety shows and was saddened to see it dropped from the screens (at 9 I couldn't be exactly described as a die-hard racist). But as I grew up, I understood why it was withdrawn.

As I entered high school, any tendencies towards bigotry were minimal at worst and non-existent at best. But it was helped by one of our English teachers, a certain Dame Anne Begg, who helped us to deconstruct a story about the Deep South and why the terms were so offensive, such as the n word that rhymes with digger and the c word that rhymes with Daniel Boone's last name and the p word that rhymes with tinny. I consider these words to be as offensive, if not more offensive than swearing so I won't put them up here.

D C T also added their tuppence worth with such strong characters as Rayker and Ebony Jones.

[Raven]

It must have been repeated after 1978 as I remember being forced to watch it when I was around 5 or 6 1982/3 as it was on at the same time as The A-Team which at the time was my favourite show well that and the Professionals and watching them singing and dancing about was sheer torture maybe that's why I can't stand musicals to this day?...

It definitely wasn't repeated at that time, dandy mad - you're misremembering. When the A Team started on ITV in 1983 it ran opposite BBC1's Friday night film (the Carry Ons, One Million Years BC, etc.) and when it shifted to Saturday in 1984, it was up against the likes of Doctor Who, Jim'll Fix It, Late Late Breakfast Show and Bob's Full House. There was nothing Minstrelesque on BBC2.

When the Minstrels went, they went for good. July 1978 was the last showing of their TV series, and, as Lew says, it's surprising it went on that late.